Andrea Germanos Health Law Politics Rights

Reproductive Rights Defenders Rally as SCOTUS Hears Challenge to Roe

United States Supreme Court building
Panorama of the west facade of United States Supreme Court Building at dusk in Washington, D.C., USA. (Joe Ravi )(CC-BY-SA 3.0)

By Andrea Germanos / Common Dreams

Reproductive rights advocates rallied Wednesday outside the U.S. Supreme Court as justices heard oral arguments in a case directly challenging the constitutional right to abortion affirmed in Roe v. Wade.

At issue before the conservative-leaning court is a challenge to Mississippi’s ban on nearly all abortions after 15 weeks. Thus far blocked by lower courts, the law, according to Dr. Martin Tucker, president of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, is “an example of harmful legislative interference into the practice of medicine.”

The stakes of the ruling, say abortion care defenders, couldn’t be higher.

“There’s no middle ground,” the Center for Reproductive Rights said in an event description for the Abortion Is Essential: Rally for Our Rights event it’s hosting in collaboration with the National Abortion Access Coalition.

“Any ruling upholding Mississippi’s ban guts the central holding of Roe and our right to make fundamental decisions about our lives, our futures, and our families,” the group added.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, “26 states are certain or likely to ban abortion,” should Roe fall, with a dozen of those states having so-called “trigger bans” on the books that would immediately curtail abortion rights.

The case before the court Wednesday is Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization—the latter referring to Mississippi’s sole remaining abortion clinic, which is being represented by the Center for Reproductive Rights. Dobbs refers to Thomas Dobbs, Mississippi’s top health officer.

Mississippi is asking the court to overturn the landmark 1973 ruling in Roe affirming the constitutional right to abortion prior to viability, which was upheld in 1992 in Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

The challenge to that right comes amid a wave of anti-choice measures put forth by state officials and as the top court now has a 6-3 conservative majority, with three of the right-wing justices—Amy Coney Barrett, Neil Gorsuch, and Brett Kavanaugh—having been appointed by former President Donald Trump.

The potential gutting of abortion rights is being relished by anti-choice groups and figures like Trump’s former Vice President Mike Pence, who said Tuesday that he hoped Roe was headed “to the ash heap of history where it belongs”—a remark that flies in the face of strong public support for upholding the ruling.

In a statement Tuesday, NARAL Pro-Choice America president Mini Timmaraju said that “the constitutional right to abortion faces a terrifying and unprecedented threat” and called “this moment of crisis … the culmination of the anti-choice movement’s decadeslong efforts to undermine the will of the overwhelming majority of people in this country who support the legal right to abortion.”

“Make no mistake,” she said. “The future of reproductive freedom is in grave danger, and the time to take bold action to protect it is now. It is absolutely critical that our leaders in the Senate pass the Women’s Health Protection Act immediately to safeguard the right to abortion throughout our country.”

30 comments

  1. You should make clear that issue is
    allowing only 1st trimester aborts versus …
    My understanding is that most countries
    do not normally have aborts after the 1st trimester.
    Bret K made the point today that 3 months should be
    enough time to decide to have abortion.
    A very high percent of US aborts are black women
    whose babies would not be adopted by the middle class.
    Religious black people do not approve of abortion
    which might be a reason that Trump looks likely to win.

    1. @Jack
      First and foremost, overpopulation is the biggest and most important issue on the planet, and human overpopulation is destroying ecosystems and driving species extinct, among many other harms. Anyone who wants an abortion should be able to get one for that reason independently.

      Second, how dare you, a man, tell any woman that she can’t have an abortion at any time in her pregnancy. It is totally irrelevant what religious jerks of any color approve of. It’s the woman’s body and it’s her choice, period! A fetus is just a part of the woman’s body until it’s born and should be treated and regarded as such.

    2. agree–more complicated than presented here…morality entirely ignored

  2. Abortion has effectively been outlawed in many if not most counties in the U.S. Illegitimate abortion restrictions have forced abortion clinics to close, the allowance of harassment and even murder of abortion providers has scared many providers away.

    One of the main groups that founded the U.S. was religious fanatics, and they still run things in their realm. Only religious fanatics oppose a woman’s right to abortion or support restrictions on that right.

  3. When Roe vs. Wade is finally overturned, hope you progressive types realize that it will be at least partially due to your equating the Democrats with the GOP, and accept your share of the blame.

    You won’t, of course… but you should.

    1. @Matthew
      This is nuanced, so most people don’t get it. No group is the same as another group, or there would only be one group. No one with any sense ever said that the Democrats are the SAME as the Republicans. What we say is that they’re both evil, and I say that they’re equally evil in different ways. Sure, the Democrats are not generally as bad as Republicans on civil rights issues like abortion/birth control and racism, and on environmental issues. But they’re worse on other issues like Russiagate and trade. They ARE the same in supporting Wall Street, the military/intelligence/industrial complex, and war.

      We need proportional representation to get a lot more parties into government, and total elimination of the legalized bribery that’s called private campaign contributions. The majority of people in this country are not Democrats or Republicans, and those people are small minorities of about 25% each. These Wall Street war mongers shouldn’t be running the country.

      As to this issue, Roe v. Wade was effectively overturned a long time ago in large portions of the country by allowing illegitimate restrictions on abortions. The Democrats are a part of this problem, though obviously not as big a part of it as Republicans. Abortion and birth control should be free and absolutely unrestricted. Show me a Democrat who supports that!

      1. You won’t get any of that, and you will also lose all of the things you have and take for granted, because this is what happens when you choose to daydream about a perfect world instead of living in the real one.

    2. @Matthew
      Supporting and fighting for supposedly lesser evil (I don’t even agree that it’s lesser, but let’s assume for the sake of argument that it is) still gets you evil even if you win, and that’s what we’ve got.

      People who take your position are of two groups. The most prominent one is the group that doesn’t actually WANT any substantial change, so they say things like you said. “That’s not going to happen” really means “I don’t want that to happen.” The other group is people who are afraid of the other party, in this case Republicans, getting elected, so they vote for their party, in this case Democrats, under the self-delusion and cognitive dissonance that their party is anything good. It’s not.

      ALL DEMOCRACIES IN THE WORLD except for the U.K. and U.S. have proportional representation. All of them! And other democracies don’t allow anywhere near the level of legalized bribery in campaign contributions that exists in the U.S. So you want to explain why we’ll never get any of these things that everyone else has?

      And BTW, I’ve been involved in electoral politics even before I was old enough to vote, including working on campaigns and even running one. So don’t try to play the “adult in the room” with me, I’ve probably forgotten more about this than you know.

  4. “Bodily Autonomy is Not Negotiable” I fully agree and this should apply to any issue such as vaccines etc.

  5. Apparently there are non “religious fanatics” like Jeff and Edward who believe that the US Constitution says that the US must permit any woman to take human life as long as it is in her belly. However it looks like there are enough religious fanatics who do not believe that in order to have Trump win again.

    1. @John Edmonds
      A fetus is not a human until it’s born, at which time it becomes a baby or child. Your comment is just more ignorant fanaticism, in addition to being totally disrespectful to women.

      And BTW, while Trump is a vile pig, most of what’s evil about him is superficial. If you look at what he actually did, it’s about the same as every other Republican president, and on most issues not substantially different than Democratic ones either. Screw both of these parties, they’re more like gangs than political parties.

  6. Are protestors for bodily “agency, autonomy, independence” (sign above) when it comes to abortion protesting for the same when it comes to ‘vaccines’ and mandates and more (e.g., lockdowns)? Muzzling themselves with masks makes it look unlikely. Right to choose? Choosing to breathe is now subject to censure and punishment, criminal or grounds for suspicion of sinister intents, like domestic terrorism.

    Perhaps the wedge issue of abortion as a catch-22 means to make any and all sides of the divides subject to the authority of the state, if not the state’s institutional ties with the medical industrial complex (and eugenics), will become more moot with the sterilizing potentials of the poisonous concoctions now being administered subject populations, and the absolutism of the police state accompanying them.

    We’re being engineered into an inescapable global gulag. If ever there was a time to defend human autonomy – no matter what side of the abortion divide one may be on – this is it.

    1. @niko
      Your comment about vaccines is spot on, but you’re off base regarding masks. If you are infected, wearing a mask prevents you from spreading the virus to others. Getting an abortion or a vaccine has no effect on others. Bad analogy.

      And yes, I’m for totally unrestricted abortion rights and totally opposed to anyone being forced or coerced to get vaccinated.

      1. false—Denis Rancourt refers to numerous studies that contradicts that masks prevent any thing except breathing and thinking

      2. For a year during the pandemic I work masks at work in a frontline facility for 14 hour shifts … and never had any trouble breathing or thinking. Strawman argument with reference to “numerous studies” is unconvincing, to say the least.

      3. @alexandr herzen
        Masks block the droplets that contain the virus. Why to you think that everyone in an operating room wears a mask? Any ten-year-old can understand this. I don’t know what “studies” you’ve been brainwashed by, but they’re clearly ridiculous.

  7. We’ve been lied to from the start of this scamdemic, including masking protocols, which have featured Fauci speaking out of both sides of his mouth (as usual, since it’s his duty as Dr. Science to lie to the public for our own good) and burying a slew of studies, many by the WHO and CDC and acknowledged by OSHA on package warning labels, regarding their ineffectiveness and downright harm, from building up bacterial infections to loss of oxygen and hypoxia. People who wear masks, especially at this late stage of the plague of corruption promoted as medical science, are victims of the fear and superstition upon which the lies have been based, still wearing signs of submission to them, and spreading them.

    Claiming neither abortion nor ‘vaccination’ have any effect on others seems worth reconsidering as well, if only due to our being social creatures rather than islands to ourselves.

    1. I should add that many are wearing masks for little to no other reason than coercion, as with workers doing so to keep their jobs, or with children abused by parents or school authorities (so much for bullying). ‘Protocols’ (aka torture techniques) like masking and distancing especially show their demonic design as well as effects in traumatizing children.

      1. Did you honestly read these studies and conclude that masks have no ability to reduce spread of disease? It’s obvious and uniform across these studies that if people wear masks uniformly then transmission is reduced. Shocker, they reduce blood oxygen levels while you wear them… I’m sure you also assume there is a global plot to suppress the # of people who suffucated while wearing masks and chalk them up as Covid deaths.

        Why is it that your conceptional right to freedom needs to trump the very distinct possibility that a slight inconvenience and temporary discomfort could prevent you from transmitting a virus capable of killing another person. Your cynicism is why this pandemic as gone on this long….. Yes, the science has been up and down throughout but this is people doing their best in hard circumstances. Your motivated bias to assume there is a sinister plot behind it is simply cowardice in the face of ‘hard things’ (that are really not that hard).

        How about this, masks are a sign that we respect each other and honor the hundreds of thousands of fellow humans who died prematurely from this virus?

        The ‘sheeple’ argument is tired and you are likely a sociopathic tendencies if you want to place rhetoric about mass coercion and political propaganda over innocent lives. If you’d like to know the real conspiracy to destroy civilization, look no further than the meat cudgels you have banging nonsensical search terms into the echo chamber of the internet (it will tell you whatever you want to believe).

      2. @Joker Public
        You’re basically right about masks, but it’s a little more nuanced than what you wrote. First, you have to account for the many different “masks” that people are wearing, some of which like bandannas aren’t masks at all (wearing a bandanna spreads the virus MORE than not wearing a mask). Then there’s the issue of whom the masks are meant to protect. An N95 mask or better protects both the wearer and everyone else, while anything less than an N95 mask only protects other people.

        But the bigger issue here is your blind obedience to power. Far worse than Fauci’s lying about mask wearing are the government’s and media’s lies about the vaccines that are pushed by the pharmaceutical industry in order to make a lot of money. The lies that getting vaccinated would stop or slow the spread of COVID-19, that it protects others, and that you’re a bad person if you don’t get vaccinated have led to draconian measures of locking down unvaccinated people and basically banning them from society. To say that someone’s cynicism is the reason “why this pandemic as gone on this long” is ludicrous. The reason it’s gone on as long as it has — not very long at this point for this kind of thing — is that it’s a very infectious virus and it’s created major mutations already. Because vaccines don’t keep people from getting or spreading the virus, there’s nothing we could have done to slow or stop the spread of COVID-19 except to lock down the entire planet (which actually would have been fine, but because of greedy business concerns and people’s wrongly prioritizing being able to go where & when they want, this didn’t happen).

        If you believe what you read, hear, or see in mainstream/corporate/establishment media, then you ARE a sheeple. As the eastern European saying goes, people in eastern Europe see the news and think it’s propaganda, while people in the U.S. see propaganda and think it’s news. If you want real news, you have to make an effort, it’s not easily available. If you don’t, you’re just part of the sheeple herd that illegitimately goes along with corporate propaganda because you’re brainwashed by it.

        For this specific issue, you have to look at peer-reviewed studies (abstracts are sufficient) that were not funded by industry. Some of the good news sources, like Jimmy Dore, have provided the results of these studies. The rest just cherry pick whatever their corporate masters tell them to, and propagandize by providing true facts out of context, or even by citing bogus studies that have been debunked.

  8. there are reasonable arguments on both sides of the abortion debate. why should government address this? It should not. In some cases it is preferable to permit adults to make mistakes and address them individually. It is difficult to form a judgement about each individual circumstance, especially when it regards birth control and abortion

    1. @alexandr herzen
      Sure, and here they are for both sides:

      Pro-Choice: A fetus is just a part of a woman’s body, so whether to have an abortion should be solely her choice. Additionally (actually, far more important in the big picture), there are far too many people on the planet, and anything that prevents lowering human population, such as abortion restrictions, just makes that problem worse.

      Pro-Life: A fetus is a living being,, so no one should be allowed to kill it. The problem with this argument is that it means that you can’t kill anything except to eat. A cancer growing in someone, or bacteria living in someone, are life too. If you can’t kill a fetus because it’s life, you can’t kill cancer cells or bacteria either.

  9. For the Moderator, whose above post shows no reply option, here are some references to numerous studies on masks, as taken from the Last American Vagabond:

    5 NIH/National Library of Medicine studies from 2004-2020 all finding verifiable health effects from wearing a face mask, including scientifically verified reduction is blood oxygen level:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29395560/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32590322/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15340662/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26579222/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31159777/

    Cloth Mask Study

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

    SOME of the mask studies on efficacy:

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01.20049528v1

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047217v2

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

    https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779801/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/

    https://aaqr.org/articles/aaqr-13-06-oa-0201.pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

    https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

    https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bio/23/2/23_61/_pdf/-char/en

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01658736

    https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/0195-6701(91)90148-2/pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200717141836/https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

    https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25776/rapid-expert-consultation-on-the-effectiveness-of-fabric-masks-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-april-8-2020

    https://www.nap.edu/read/25776/chapter/1#6

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

    https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6599448/

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

    https://clinmedjournals.org/articles/jide/journal-of-infectious-diseases-and-epidemiology-jide-6-130.php?jid=jide

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1130147308702355

  10. @Jeff,
    Don’t presume to know how I absorb information or what sources I use. Jimmy Dore is a frigging comedian–so no, I don’t put a lot of stock in his information parsing credentials. I DO however put a lot of stock in earnest distillation of information and sensible actions we can all take that reduce the harm of this virus. I know people who have died, and I know people who have been able to return to a more normal life with the help of improved immuno-response from vaccines. I also travel the world and see the stark difference in the callous, arrogant, and completely disconnected attitudes present in the US vs everywhere else.

    We had the opportunity to close the door on this virus early on (sure, a long shot with the intellectual cannon fodder we have a play these days, but still—with masks, distancing and lockdowns) then again earlier this year with vaccines. To say that masks and “vaccines don’t keep people from getting or spreading the virus” is pure ignorance and a blanket argument that conveniently supports your thesis that (it’s all just b/c people in power blah blah). One question, what do these murky ‘powers that be’ own from ‘forced’ policies of masks? Vaccinations? (If there’s a microchip in your story then politely STFU).

    My question is, masks or vaccines, no masks or vaccines, one controversial study or another what are YOU going to do to make the works a freer more livable place? Hint:
    Slapping your jelly digits against your keyboard ain’t moving the needle….

    Are YOU helping people who have lost jobs or homes? Are YOU providing alternative courses of action to reduce pain and death from this disease? ORRR are you just yelling “blah blah sheeple” you’re being lied to? If you’re not providing alternatives, do everyone who knows you a favor and shut the hell up (I’ve only heard your blather for 2 minutes and am tired of your no-alternative nonsense).

    1. @Joker Public
      By your response, it’s quite clear that I was correct about your sources of information. It doesn’t matter one bit that Jimmy Dore is a POLITICAL comedian, he does a much better job of presenting the facts and the truth than anyone in mainstream/corporate/establishment media, and he’s done the best job debunking all the lies about COVID than anyone else I’ve seen, heard, or read. But since you have no legitimate argument, you make a personal attack on Dore instead of dealing with the facts that he’s presented.

      It’s also clear that you’re brainwashed if you think that “[w]e had the opportunity to close the door on this virus early on” by using vaccines. Even the main guy who invented the mRNA vaccine said that’s not at all true, and that all competent immunologists know that “you can’t vaccinate your way out of a pandemic,” to quote him directly. For the millionth time, Israeli and British studies have shown that unvaccinated people spread the virus substantially the same as vaccinated people (there is a slight difference immediately upon becoming fully vaccinated, but that difference decreases until at 3 months there is no difference at all). There are no studies that show the contrary to my knowledge (there are some that show cellular differences, but using those to answer this question is totally dishonest and wrong, because studies about cells show HOW and WHY the virus is transmitted, not WHETHER it’s transmitted). And it’s beyond obvious by now that vaccinations don’t keep people from getting COVID-19. So how exactly would vaccines “close the door” on the virus?

      You’re even wrong about what I said about masks. I never said that masks don’t protect people from the virus, but you’re obviously so fanatic about this that you can’t even see what’s right in front of your face.

      Your response also shows that you are the sheeple people talk about, parroting whatever corporate propaganda you’ve been brainwashed with. You obviously don’t understand the indisputable facts that the pharmaceutical industry wants everyone vaccinated because they make a fortune by doing this, that the industry gives millions of dollars every year to politicians and the corporate media, and that those politicians and media are happy to repeat whatever lies the industry wants. That alone doesn’t show the lies and misinformation about the vaccines, but it shows the motivation for them, in answer to your question, which you would know if you watched Jimmy Dore.

      The alternatives I propose are 1) if humans don’t want these kinds of diseases to keep happening they need to move toward living a lot more simply & naturally and in a lot smaller numbers. Zoonotic diseases like COVID-19 are all caused by human destruction of the natural environment and/or confining animals (unless they’re made in a lab), both of which cause humans to come into unnatural contact with them; 2) gain of function research should be banned, and the U.S. should certainly stop funding it. It has been clear for sometime that it’s almost certain that COVID-19 leaked out of the Wuhan lab; and 3) no one should ever be coerced or forced to have a needle stuck in them or things put into their bodies that they don’t want. As to this disease specifically, if you don’t want to get it, socially isolate as much as possible, social distance when you can’t isolate, and wear a mask indoors when in public (i.e., not your home) and even outdoors when you’re around a dense group of people (not sure if the last one is necessary, but I’d do it as a precaution until I know for sure one way or the other).

      Sorry if you’re tired of hearing the truth that doesn’t comport with your brainwashed view of the world. I suggest going to some straight up corporate media site where you won’t have to read the writings of those who think for themselves and aren’t brainwashed.

      1. @Jeff oh @Jeff,

        We actually have a lot more in common than you’d ever surmise (I did you the credit of reading some of your other notes on this site before responding).

        But we do have one key difference… I spend virtually zero time in comment board vitriol wars–while it seems to be your primary hobby. You have an MO, see. You skim messages to find one point of disagreement you can find that gives you a ‘jumping off point’. From there, you make wildly presumptuous statements and inventing a sort of ‘catalog’ of your opponent’s abysmal intellectual failures. I imagine you fancy yourself an agent of change or somesuch….

        When really the whole purpose is to convince yourself of how well informed and righteous you are (As Joseph Campbell said, you don’t see people arguing about whether the sun is going to rise–tho coming soon to a ’22 near you at this rate). Meanwhile, you dodge anything of substance uttered by your ‘adversary’.

        For example, my question about you, and your sphere of action? Not a peep on those direct questions in the transcript of your uh, sermon up there was there?

        If you’re a bot I’m mildly impressed. If you’re a human… not so much… maybe write a book with all this pent up need to spray your perspective forcefully in all directions? Or better yet, start a podcast and chase the dream with your buddy Jimmy.

      2. @Joker Public
        You “spend virtually zero time in comment board vitriol wars,” but here you are blathering on, this time with lies about me. Personal attacks are for those who have no legitimate arguments, just like your personal attack on Jimmy Dore, instead of addressing the facts and arguments either time. And I DID respond to your supposed question about what can be done (I say “supposed” because it’s more of a comment that there’s nothing we can do), you just don’t like my response. See my next-to-the-last paragraphs proposing alternative major changes to human society.

        The reason that I comment is mainly to counter BS that I see, and your comments about vaccines are some of that BS. You still haven’t addressed my points at all, and you probably never will because you have no legitimate counter-argument. For example, show me peer-reviewed studies not funded by the pharmaceutical industry that show that getting vaccinated would have contributed to ending the COVID pandemic (which is now endemic, so this is now a moot point now). You can’t, because there aren’t any, since vaccinating everyone after the pandemic had begun would not have stopped the virus. And the BS about everyone having to get vaccinated in order to protect other people or for the good of society is dangerous, because governments are using the fear of COVID-19 and this BS to amass more illegitimate power, this time to regulate individuals and their bodies.

        Your comments about me are what R. D. Laing called “projecting,” because you are projecting your personality onto me. You couldn’t be more wrong about me, but YOU should look in the mirror. If you respond to me again here or elsewhere, please limit your comments to addressing the issues I raise and leave out the personal attacks. If you fail to do so, we’re done and I’ll just ignore your comments in the future.

        And BTW, I highly doubt that we have a lot in common, despite what my comments here led you to believe. I’m a radical environmentalist and deep ecologist of the old guard Earth First! variety. Issues that are solely social issues are secondary to me. (I liked the original Green Party, because their priorities were peace and the environment. Unfortunately, they sold out decades ago in order to play the political game.) Despite the fact that I agree with the left (the real left, not people who think that the Democratic Party, MSNBC, or the New York Times are left) on most issues, I’m not a leftist because I have other priorities.

  11. @Jeff,

    Much of this was a misunderstanding sir. My original comment was addressed to another commenter here, doing exactly what you described as calling out BS regarding “people wearing masks as signs of their complicity in the scam” or something like that… I was pissed b/c I have many friends and family to take comfort in mask-wearing and believe in its effectiveness (nuances, which were not news to me, aside). So you were policing one sentence (with a ‘by design’ dramatic flare on a point we otherwise agree on).

    I have not spend time addressing any of your comments or defending any of mine in earnest b/c I didn’t feel this was an authentic conversation, rather some sort of rhetorical cage match. You came out of the gate with presumptions to support ‘your’ personal attack on me. So it’s rich that you’re pearl clutching on that front now.

    All respect to you, really. You clearly have a high IQ (tho EQ might need some work). You don’t have to believe me that we have a lot of common surface area–but it’s true. In real life, I work with companies on environment, social and governance programs. This is at scale (not dink & dunk)–building net zero plans, resiliency strategies, and other work that actually moves the needle on climate change response. I don’t ‘talk’ about it in the public sphere… I actively work. So when I asked what you DO, I was not asking for your treatise on how the world would work if you ran it, but what concrete actions you take in the real world, with actual people, on these fronts. I’m still (genuinely, not sarcastically) curious…

    We will have to agree to disagree on Dore. I supported him early on in his recent career shift with a pretty sizeable donation because I support anyone who will talk to Chris Hedges. I don’t think what he’s doing now is purely in the interest of truth, but rather (much like Glenn Greenwald) pursuing a fact set that has a superficial good intention but runs into down a slippery slope that the cynic in me sees as monetizing skepticisms and hesitancies and continuing to do so because followers increase. We don’t have to agree on vaccine effectiveness (I don’t support mandates, for what that’s worth) or this one particular personality to agree on other important topics.

    1. @Joker Public
      OK, so let’s end the battle and leave it there. Unlike most people, I’m always happy to learn of other points of view or facts. I’m not trying to propagandize, I’m trying to debunk propaganda.

      Regarding COVID-19 and its vaccines, I look at what the top relevant scientists say; I don’t care what the media or government say, and I ignore them. Robert Malone, the main scientist who invented the mRNA vaccine, has been saying that the only reason that the government is pushing vaccines for everyone is that the pharmaceutical industry gives millions of dollars each year to politicians, and the more people who get vaccinated, the more money they make. I watched an over hour-long interview with him where he explained what vaccines for these types of viruses do and don’t do. THAT’s the kind of information I look at. If a scientist in the relevant field has a contrary point of view that’s not just advocating for the pharmaceutical industry, I’m more than happy to look at it.

      I don’t like to list things I’ve done for the good of the planet, because it’s irrelevant and it sounds like bragging. But if you’re sincerely interested, here goes: I volunteered literally thousands of hours as an Earth First! campaigner, worked a paying job at Greenpeace, volunteered for political candidate I support, and practiced environmental law. I strongly disagree with you that publishing comments online doesn’t get anything done. Every little bit helps; we are only 2 people out of 8 billion on a planet that’s exponentially bigger than we are. As long as someone is making an effort to do SOMETHING, I’m not going to complain unless what they’re doing is counterproductive. All we can do is to do what we can and let the chips fall where they may.

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