Chris Hedges Military Ukraine

The Chris Hedges Report: Ukraine and the Resurgence of American Militarism

What will be the consequences of the United States’s commitment to long-term conflict, and where will we be when the war finally ends?

By Chris Hedges / The Real News Network

The war in Ukraine, stoked in part by NATO expansion and the violation of promises made to Moscow at the end of the Cold War, now looks set to become a lengthy war of attrition—one funded and backed by the United States. What will be the consequences of the United States’s commitment to long-term conflict, and where will we be when the war finally ends?

Andrew Bacevich explains in this interview how the end of the Cold War triggered a new bout of American military interventionism that has now spanned decades. Moreover, as Bacevich argues, if the fighting in Ukraine ceases without a geopolitical plan for peaceably bringing Russia back into the community of nations, we risk setting the world stage for even greater conflict.

Andrew Bacevich is a West Point graduate, retired Army Colonel, and Vietnam war veteran. He is also an emeritus professor of history and international relations at Boston University and the co-founder and president of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft. His books include The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism and his latest, After the Apocalypse: America’s Role in a World Transformed.

Chris Hedges interviews writers, intellectuals, and dissidents, many banished from the mainstream, in his half-hour show, The Chris Hedges Report. He gives voice to those, from Cornel West and Noam Chomsky to the leaders of groups such as Extinction Rebellion, who are on the front lines of the struggle against militarism, corporate capitalism, white supremacy, the looming ecocide, as well as the battle to wrest back our democracy from the clutches of the ruling global oligarchy.

Studio: Adam Coley, Cameron Granadino
Post-Production: Adam Coley

Watch The Chris Hedges Report live YouTube premiere on The Real News Network every Friday at 12PM ET.

Listen to episode podcasts and find bonus content at The Chris Hedges Report Substack.

Chris Hedges
Chris Hedges

Chris Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist who was a foreign correspondent for fifteen years for The New York Times, where he served as the Middle East Bureau Chief and Balkan Bureau Chief for the paper. He previously worked overseas for The Dallas Morning NewsThe Christian Science Monitor, and NPR. He is the host of show The Chris Hedges Report.

48 comments

  1. I’m requesting to be a guest on The Chris Hedges Report.
    If you contact me and give me a email link, I have an eight-page essay on solar energy extracted from my forthcoming book, The Renaissance of Hope: Creating the Green New Deal. I would include the book’s dust jacket, and a pdf file of the book. (Five pages of the 421 pages of text are from your works, which I need permission to use.)
    Also, I request that you pass the essay on to Robert Scheer. His reading audience would be very much interested in it.

    1. lNo New Green Deal for Nature. Solar? To do what? Run garden bird bath fountains?

      The world is industrial, steel, concrete, metal, and, well, you know that. Power, and clouds and satellites and armies and other wars.

      Check out Rising Tides.

      https://risingtidefoundation.net/about-us/

      The Rising Tide Foundation is a non-profit organisation based out of Montreal Canada dedicated to the enhancement of cross-cultural understanding and dialogue between east and west. We support initiatives such as lectures, seminars, and multi media productions that facilitate greater bridges between east and west while also providing a service that includes geopolitical analysis, research in the arts, philosophy, sciences and history.

      The term “a rising tide lifts all boats” was first popularized by America’s 35th President John F. Kennedy who used this poetic image as a means of conveying the idea that true wealth raises everyone rich and poor alike. Describing the construction of energy projects across America, JFK said in September 1963:

      “When we develop these resources in the Northwest United States, it is just as well that the country realises that we are not talking about one State or two States or three States; we are talking about the United States. Our people move freely from east to west and even once in a while from west to east, but in any case, the country becomes stronger.There is an old saying that a rising tide lifts all the boats, and as the Northwest United States rises, so does the entire country, so we are glad.”

      In recent years, this phrase was revived by China’s President Xi Jinping, who used it to convey the benefits of all nations’ participation in the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) as a comprehensive plan for win-win cooperation and inter-cultural connectivity centering around energy projects, rail lines, new cities, telecommunications and education.

      Just like JFK’s program which involved exporting scientific, industrial and technological progress to poorer nations in order to help others’ help themselves, China has also begun extending the BRI program to Africa, Middle Eastern, Eurasia and even Latin America. And, just as JFK extended olive branches to “enemies” such as Russia and China to work together on great infrastructure and even space exploration, China has extended olive branches to the west with multiple offers to join what foreign minister Wang Yi has called a “chorus of nations working to create a beautiful symphony.”

      The Rising Tide Foundation is committed to the belief that the improvement of scientific and technological progress is inextricably tied to the improvement of creativity and moral disposition of every member of society. This is reflected in what English poet Percy Bysshe Shelley described as a society’s “power of communicating and receiving intense and impassioned conceptions respecting man and nature”. Describing the role of the poet in society, Shelley went onto say “They measure the circumference and sound the depths of human nature with a comprehensive and all-penetrating spirit, and they are themselves perhaps the most sincerely astonished at its manifestations; for it is less their spirit than the spirit of the age. Poets are the hierophants of an unapprehended inspiration; the mirrors of the gigantic shadows which futurity casts upon the present; the words which express what they understand not; the trumpets which sing to battle, and feel not what they inspire; the influence which is moved not, but moves. Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world.”

      Embodying Shelley’s principle of the poet-legislator most beautifully, JFK showcased his profound understanding of creativity’s connection to physical economy and science during his “rising tide speech” of 1963 where he elevated the idea of conservationism to higher standpoint than anyone had hitherto considered:

      “There are two points on conservation that have come home to me in the last 2 days. One is the necessity for us to protect what we already have, what nature gave to us, and use it well, not to waste water or land, to set aside land and water, recreation, wilderness, and all the rest now so that it will be available to those who come in the future. That is the traditional concept of conservation, and it still has a major part in the national life of the United States. But the other part of conservation is the newer part, and that is to use science and technology to achieve significant breakthroughs as we are doing today, and in that way to conserve the resources which 10 or 20 or 30 years ago may have been wholly unknown.”

    2. @Ralph L. Cates
      The Green New Deal is a scam and a lie. Solar and wind power also kill nonhumans and destroy ecosystems & habitats. If you don’t believe me, read Deep Green Lies by Derrick Jensen et al., or at least watch Planet of the Humans. Merely changing sources of energy will not solve any fundamental environmental or ecological problems.

      What’s needed is dismantling of industrial society, not searching for fantastical and false solutions to living unnaturally. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, and it’s way past time that humans grow up and realize that simple fact. Either we live in natural balance with the Earth, its ecosystems, and its habitats, or we immorally kill nonhumans while also destroying ecosystems and habitats.

      We could get rid of industrial society in 150-200 years if we really tried, and that’s what we need to work toward. Incremental steps like organizing our lives so that we don’t have to drive regularly, then get rid of our cars, are what we need to do individually. Societally, we need incentives to live more naturally, and disincentives to live otherwise. Eliminating industrial society won’t be easy, but it’s necessary in order for humans to stop killing and wrecking the planet.

      1. oh, Jeff – as someone who has lived for well over 20 years in a house all of which’s energy needs are met by wind and sun [some biogas as well] i just wonder what makes ye besmirch these alternative sources of energy? a solar electric panel will produce many times more energy over its lifespan than it took to produce it… clearly ye know this?
        not that i disagree with other changes being needed, but badmouthing solar and wind is counterproductive. do ye work in the fossil fuel industry? or nuclear? cause that’s wwhere these arguments can be found most often…

      2. @arvo
        The needed changes are greatly lowering human population and consumption, and living a lot more simply & naturally. These changes will take a long time — it would take 150-200 years to eliminate industrial living, for example, and we’ll need to have lowered the human population to one billion by then in order to avoid people starving to death — but they are the only real solutions.

        You “what makes [me] besmirch these alternative sources of energy”? Like I said, read the book or at least see the movie, they will explain. All I’ll say here is that you can’t have your cake & eat it too, and there’s absolutely no such thing as “green” energy.

  2. I have great respect for you Chris…Andrew Bacevich is wrong about Russian military competence. They are kicking serious ass in Ukraine. Just compare it to our invasions of which I have participated. Time will tell.

    1. Yes, although I increasingly don’t respect anyone today when propaganda is so thick you can practically cut it with a knife, who platforms someone who mouths national security state b.s. like Bacevich. Let’s see whose economy is doing better a year from now, Russia’s or the US? Heh, yeah this “major” power is doing everything possible to undermine the value of the dollar and trash any ability for the federal government to function at all. Hedges knows better- it’s weird that all of those years he spoke about the nation’s rapid slide towards fascism, he now features guests like this. WT-? I hear more truth from libertarians/right-leaning commentaters today than so-called leftists.

  3. Young people today: Chris Hedges should be your Walter Cronkite, the minimal standard for political information. Contrast the confusion and failure of Robert Scheer’s Alexander Cockburn interview with this frank and open conversation with Andrew Bacevich.
    I accept censorship of my comments on the former thread, but why erase me here?

  4. After blaming Democrats for the conservative annulment of Roe v Wade, Hedges is going full Orwellian with calling Putin’s colonial war on Ukraine, and proxy war against the democratic west an ‘American military interventionism’.

    I wouldn’t want to be Chris once finally he wakes up from his lengthy left-ish Neo Progressive trip…

    1. @ Democracy: some 20 or so years back Chris Hedges reported, methinks in Harper’s, about israeli soldiers shooting stone-throwing kids in ‘a Gaza Diary’. his description of the israeli “defense” forces murderous actions is seared into my mind.
      these days? amongst much pseudo-philosophical waxing and tedious Nato-bashing, with the required dose of contempt for the merchants of death [which, Chris. i do share!!!!] he has so far not found the time to, in clear terms, CONDEMN THE FUCKING STUPID WAR IN UKRAINE WHICH IS KILLING INNOCENT KIDS IN GREAT NUMBERS….
      no, the spotlight of his formerly sharp mind turns thisaway to justify Putin and thataway to vilify ukraine/Nato/US, but he just cannot speak up with any moral clarity to say: THIS IS A STUPID, SENSELESS WAR OF IMPERIALIST CONQUEST, AND IT NEEDS TO STOP!!!!! so israeli ‘defense’ forces shooting kids is really bad, but russian soldiers shooting ukrainian kids is, well ye gotta understand Putin, why with nato on 6%of his land borders him encircled, he done put down red lines, Ukraine is not a real country anyways, nazi nazi nazi, yada yada yada….
      Chris if ye read this, my former admiration has turned to utter contempt.
      a shill is what ye have become. i hope it pays well… and don’t look into the mirror, ye won’t like what ye see…

      1. Thanks Arvo for your comments. They capture my sentiments exactly. I always wondered whether the experience Chris collected, and reported on, as a war correspondent was colored by his distaste for the USA. In his youth, his father activated him for many causes to take to the streets of America to address real wrongs. He reported on the real wrongs of the USA in his overseas war reports. Now he cannot see the real villain, but seemingly out of habit, can only cast the USA as villain.

        I did not want to conclude that Chris was mainly driven by anti-USA bias. I wanted to believe he was a clear-thinking reformer. What now stands out for me is that he is an apologist for tyranny!

  5. The idea that the Russian military is losing is mistaken. This is U.S. military propaganda Supporting the Nazis in Ukraine is appalling. There is nothing noble about them. Nothing.

    1. @ carolynch: right, only the russian forces know how to steal, torture, rape and kill with a nobility which transcends description in a country they invaded for no good reason, and ye cheer, cause a shill ye are….
      all others, go to ‘oryx blog’, see all the pics of destroyed russian gear, and then have carolynch explain how this all be the plan, no worries….

  6. In part? IN PART?! Chris, tell the truth.

    Re:

    The war in Ukraine, stoked in part by NATO expansion and the violation of promises made to Moscow at the end of the Cold War

    1. yes, Thomas, IN PART this war also has something to do with putin, que no?
      as far as ‘violations’ go do look up the ‘Budapest memorandum’ in which russia promised to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine… i know, facts not yer strong suit?
      for a shill, the violations of russia simply do not exist, right?

  7. The news du jour’s market value depends in no small part on how many ways professional class critics riding the coattails of MSM propaganda can slice and dice it. War’s always a safe investment for capturing audience attention, if only to withdraw attention from other wars. It offers more bang for the buck in the psychological war of attrition constantly waged upon subject people by the powers making war upon us in so many ways which remain hidden in plain sight from misdirected masses. Now nothing else exists but the fog of war covering for that greater war. And the commentariat, pompously posing as public intelligentsia, are just the useful idiots and pied pipers made to order by ruling powers to lead us down dead ends of idle chatter.

    1. err, Niko, was there a message somewhere? it seems the idle chatter was all yers….
      and no, not all and every single government on this planet are the same, life is, sadly, a bit more complicated ….

      1. No doubt it’s idle chatter when you miss the message; I also appreciate scoring points on others’ comments by recourse to the easy and simple catchall ‘it’s more complicated than that’, especially when no further explanation is given in a comment even briefer in scope than the original.

        Besides apparently needing to recall the abbreviated nature of comments, I don’t recall having said anything along the lines of all governments of the world are the same. If anything, my ‘message’ is that what is presented to us in a remarkable uniformity of war discourse, pro and con, conceals a much more complicated reality of a larger war disguised by this and other psychological warfare (and I append reference to a sketch of this larger war).

        As this world war on humanity unfolds, it is the complex nature of our humanity, including as likewise deceptively defined by gatekeepers of national identity, that is under assault by a 4th industrial revolution of evolution that would turn us into synthetic automatons, homogeneously reduced to our simplest utilitarian purpose as resources for the psychopathy of class rule.

        A recent review of how some of this global totalitarian rule has long been in the making:
        Empire of hypocrisy
        http://winteroak.org.uk/2022/05/15/empire-of-hypocrisy/

  8. Oh, these West Point, well, that’s enough to be said.

    Sick, really.

    The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine forbade soldiers and officers to publicly criticize foreign military equipment

    1. A new order was received by the troops.
    2. Servicemen are forbidden to speak publicly in the media and social networks negatively about military equipment supplied from abroad.
    3. Violators are waiting for disciplinary action, as well as removal from office.
    4. The new document was developed at the request of the media people of Zelensky’s office.
    5. The Kiev leadership is closely monitoring the situation. It was revealed that Ukrainian militants are now actively criticizing American M-113 armored personnel carriers, Javelin complexes, and British anti-aircraft systems. In addition, Polish tanks and Czech Dana howitzers began to be criticized.

    Clearly weapons delivery to the Ukraine is not as rosy as what you see in the western reports.

    Over the past day, the topic of the loss of an entire battalion at the Seversky Donets River crossing near Belogorovka was actively discussed. There are a lot of versions of events: from the negligent attitude of the command staff on the ground, to the heroic feat of the soldiers of the Russian Armed Forces during heavy battles. For example, former DPR Defense Minister Igor Strelkov chose an interesting tactic – ” I know, but I won’t tell you about the BTGr’s personal losses at the crossing.” One thing is for sure-the losses are great, but without having been in this “infernal hell” it is impossible to say with certainty why they were incurred.

    The situation on the fronts today is as follows:

    The situation on the Kharkiv front continues to be very tense. Units of the Russian Armed Forces shelled the positions of Ukrainian troops in the areas of the settlements of Petrovka, Nursery, Russkie Tishki and Ternovaya in order to prevent their further advance.

    The Izyum front. Last night, the village of Dolgenkoe was liberated from the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Slavyansk direction. Unfortunately, traces of terrible outrages were once again found on the site. Ukrainian nationalists abused and killed a woman in Kharkiv region. The body was found in the village of Dolgenke, liberated from the Ukrainian Armed Forces last night, by Ukrainian militants against the civilian population. According to unconfirmed reports, another Ukrainian Air Force plane was shot down north-west of Izyum.

    Luhansk front. The bridge connecting Rubizhne and Severodonetsk was blown up. The main supply route Soledar-Lisichansk is under fire from the Allied forces. To the north of Popasnaya, an offensive is developing in the direction of Kamyshevakha. The beginning of the battles for Privolye is celebrated. In turn, the AFU command continues to strengthen the group in Artemivsk (Bakhmut )in order to prevent a breakthrough from Popasna.

    On the Donetsk front, the Allied forces are trying to advance towards the settlements of Marinka and Novomikhailovka. In the afternoon, it was reported that the People’s Militia of the DPR and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation stormed the settlements of Kamenka and Novoselovka-2.
    Zaporozhye front. Heavy fighting is taking place on the outskirts of Ugledar. The locality of Pavlovka, which is adjacent to the south-western outskirts of Ugledar, passed several times from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    On the southern front, there is another loss of the Ukrainian Air Force near Zmeyny. This time, a 4th-generation MiG-29 fighter crashed into the Black Sea. The Ukrainian command is preparing an offensive by the forces of the 28th and 60th Separate Mechanized Brigade in the Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih directions. There is a systematic artillery attack on the positions of our troops in Vysokopolye and Knyazevka.

    Calibration today looked as follows: In Nikolaev the warehouse with ammunition of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is destroyed. Eyewitnesses report a column of black smoke at the rear of the Ukrainian Armed Forces; 3 bridges necessary for the transfer of Ukrainian forces were blown up in the Kharkiv region; work was carried out on separate objects in Odessa.

    Ukrainian Armed Forces continue to shell Kherson. The cities of the Donetsk People’s Republic continue to be under heavy shelling. The Ukrainian Armed Forces have been shelling the territory of the DPR since morning. Two people were killed, at least eight were injured, and the Kuibyshevsky, Petrovsky, and Kirovsky districts of Donetsk and Staromikhailovka were the most affected. Also, the Ukrainian Armed Forces shelled Dokuchaevsk – one person was killed, four were wounded, among them two RT cameramen were injured.

    The Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation will conduct an investigation into the fact of the shelling of the Belgorod region. Bastrykin instructed to open a criminal case.

    An interesting fact is that NATO, in the course of saturating the Ukrainian front with its own weapons samples, sends outdated Western scrap metal under the “Russian press”. Surprisingly, sometimes it even comes to anti-aircraft guns of the Second World War.

    +–+

    New York Times Shifts Prowar Narrative, Documents Failure of U.S. in Ukraine

    by John V. Walsh / May 14th, 2022

    The New York Times has a job to do – and it has done that job spectacularly well over the past few months. The Times is a leader, in the opinion of this writer, the leader in spelling out the US narrative on the war in Ukraine, a tale designed to keep up morale, give the war a high moral purpose and justify the untold billions pouring from the taxpayers’ pockets into Joe Biden’s proxy war on Russia. Day in and day out, in page after page of word and picture, it has been instructing one and all, including politicians and lower level opinion shapers, exactly what to think about the war in Ukraine.

    So, when the Times says that things are not going well for the US and its man in Kiev, Volodymyr Zelensky, it is a man bites dog kind of story. It tells us that some truths have gone from uncomfortable to undeniable. Such was nature of the page one story on May 11, headlined “Russians Hold Much of the East, Setbacks Aside.”

    Even that anti-narrative headline softens the bitter truth. The first paragraph of the story fesses up more completely, stating, “Obscured in the daily fighting is the geographic reality that Russia has made gains on the ground.” Not “holding” ground but “gaining” ground. Not exactly a morale booster.

    The Times goes on, “The Russian Defense Ministry said Tuesday that its forces in eastern Ukraine had advanced to the border between Donetsk and Luhansk, the two Russian-speaking provinces where Moscow-backed separatists have been fighting Ukraine’s army for eight years.” Here it reminds us that the first shots in this war were not fired on February 24, as the narrative goes, but eight long years ago in the Donbas. It is a jolting reminder for those who base their support for the war on “who fired the first shot,” that their “moral” view has a considerable blind spot.

    The Times continues: “…. the Donbas seizure, combined with the Russian invasion’s early success in seizing parts of southern Ukraine adjoining the Crimean peninsula ….gives the Kremlin enormous leverage in any future negotiation to halt the conflict.”

    It goes on: “And the Russians enjoy the added advantage of naval dominance in the Black Sea, the only maritime route for Ukrainian trade, which they have paralyzed with an embargo that could eventually starve Ukraine economically and is already contributing to a global grain shortage.” More bad news.

    +–+

    Backed by Zelensky’s top financier, neo-Nazi militants unleash a wave of intimidation
    Incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard, the Azov Battalion is considered the most ideologically zealous and militarily motivated unit fighting pro-Russian separatists in the eastern Donbass region.

    With Nazi-inspired Wolfsangel insignia on the uniforms of its fighters, who have been photographed with Nazi SS symbols on their helmets, Azov “is known for its association with neo-Nazi ideology…[and] is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing US-based white supremacy organizations,” according to an FBI indictment of several US white nationalists that traveled to Kiev to train with Azov.

    Igor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian energy baron of Jewish heritage, has been a top funder of Azov since it was formed in 2014. He has also bankrolled private militias like the Dnipro and Aidar Battalions, and has deployed them as a personal thug squad to protect his financial interests.

    In 2019, Kolomoisky emerged as the top backer of Zelensky’s presidential bid. Though Zelensky made anti-corruption the signature issue of his campaign, the Pandora Papers exposed him and members of his inner circle stashing large payments from Kolomoisky in a shadowy web of offshore accounts.

    +–+

    Victoria Nuland declares US is protecting ‘biological research facilities’ in Ukraine

    +–+

    Grayzone!

  9. Dear sir,
    Always a pleasure hearing/reading your view on past/present/future. The interview with the ex-military is a wee bit beyond my scope. Why would someone assume that another ideology “is not yet to standards”? And why would an ex-USA military judge on a Russian counterpart. I think the competence of both can be easily verified on facts. My impression is that philosophy and modesty are not part of the US-Military CV. (I only did Latin, Greek and Architecture. Philosophy and art are my foundations. Not military. So I might be wrong.)

  10. Old stories do die by the scrubbers of history. USA, what a load of terrorists:

    As “Leader of the Free World”, the United States has waged numerous wars against sovereign countries since the end of World War II resulting in millions of deaths. The atrocities and crimes committed are on record.

    The corporate media has upheld ALL these military interventions (without exception) starting with the Korean war in 1950 as “peace-making operations” intent upon “spreading democracy” Worldwide.

    At this juncture in our history, namely the Ukraine Crisis, it is important that a REAL peace process be initiated with a view to preventing escalation. What is happening in Ukraine has serious geopolitical implications and could potentially lead to a World War III scenario.

    In the context of the Ukraine crisis, Canada is unconditionally supporting the United States without reflecting on an unspoken chapter in the history of our country.

    Most Canadians are unaware of the fact that the United States of America had formulated in 1924 a carefully designed plan to invade Canada and bomb Montreal, Quebec City, Halifax and Vancouver.

    What has been deliberately omitted from our history books in schools, colleges and universities is that our American neighbour had envisaged a detailed plan to invade Canada. The use of “poison gas” was part of that project.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/reflecting-on-canadas-sovereignty-americas-plan-to-annex-and-invade-canada/5341097

  11. Norman —

    On the question of the Ukraine, the thing that’s troubled me about the public conversation of the Ukraine or hysteria —it’s not even a conversation, it’s hysteria about the Ukraine— is the following: those who are not totally immersed in the mainstream propaganda, some of the people you’ve had on your program and people who are not especially of the left, they have no particular left-wing allegiance, like John Mearsheimer at University of Chicago, or before he passed away Stephen F. Cohen who predicted that if you keep up with this NATO expansion in the Ukraine, there’s going to be a war. He said that in Democracy Now in 2014, and he was right. And other people, Professor Chomsky. I would include in that group several others, and they’ll all say the following thing:

    Number one, the Russians were promised that there would be no NATO expansion to the East, that was the quid pro quo for the reunification of Germany after the decomposition of the Soviet Union. The Russians were promised that but the West went ahead. We’re talking about the 1990s: the promises were given, but the West then went ahead and started to expand NATO once, as John Mearsheimer likes to put it there was the first tranche, then the second tranche of expansion… Then NATO starts expanding in Georgia and in the Ukraine. The Soviet Union says it’s a red line.

    To stop this, the Soviet Union offers a perfectly reasonable resolution: just neutralize Ukraine like we neutralized Austria after World War II, neither aligned with an Eastern bloc nor aligned with a Western bloc. That seemed to me perfectly reasonable. And the people I mentioned, Mearsheimer, Cohen passed away since but Professor Chomsky and a number of others, they’ll all agree on the reasonableness of Putin’s demands.

    And then the reasonableness of those demands, those demands have to, as Briahna says in her paper and as she said this evening, they have to always be seen in context. So what’s the context? The context is the Soviet Union, the former Russia, it lost… the estimates are about 30 million people during World War II. The United States which, if you watch American movies, you would think the US won World War II, it lost about two hundred thousand people. The UK was the second candidate for winning World War II, they lost about four hundred thousand people. The Soviet Union lost 30 million people. Even those who didn’t take courses in the hard sciences can reckon the difference between several hundred thousand and thirty million. Now that’s not an ancient memory for the Russians. If you… I remember Stephen F. Cohen saying “when I grew up in little America —he was from Kentucky— we used to celebrate…” I forgot what was called here Victory Day, V-something, he said “but you know now as adults we don’t celebrate that anymore in the United States, Victory in World War II”, he said, but Russia, he said, they still celebrate V-Day, they still celebrate it. I live in the Coney Island section of Brooklyn. A large part is Russian Jews, a large part is Russian Jews. You go out in May, you go out on the V-Day, and you can see that Russians up to 80 and 90 year olds, they’re wearing medals, they’re medals from World War II. That memory is alive.

    And now there’s this Ukraine, where Nazis are playing an outsized role. I’m not saying they’re a majority, but in the political and military life, they play an outsized —disproportionate let’s call it— role. This Ukraine where Nazis are playing an outsized role, are aligned with a formidable military bloc called NATO, NATO keeps advancing and advancing and advancing, closing on Russia, trying to suffocate it… And beginning around 2016, under Trump, begins to arm the Ukraine, pouring in weapons, engaging in military exercises with NATO, behaving very provocatively. And then the Foreign Minister Lavrov finally says we’ve reached the boiling point.

    Now everything I just told you, Professor Chomsky, John Mearsheimer and others will acknowledge it. The mainstream press won’t even acknowledge that but people who call themselves just, legitimately call themselves dissidents, although Mearsheimer wouldn’t call himself a dissident, he just calls himself a realist. Nice guy, I consider him a friend, I like him. They’ll acknowledge all that. But then they say the invasion was criminal. Criminal invasion, criminal, criminal, criminal. And my question which I’ve constantly been putting in correspondence is a very simple one: if you agree that for 20 years—more than 20 years, more than two decades—, Russia has tried to engage in diplomacy; if you agree that the Russian demand to neutralize Ukraine —not occupy it, not determine its government, its form of economy, just neutralize it like Austria after World War II—, if you agree that was a legitimate demand; if you agree that the West was expanding and expanding NATO; if you agree that Ukraine de facto had become a member of NATO, weapons pouring in, engaging in military exercises in NATO; and if you agree… You know, Russia lost 30 million people during World War II because of the Nazi invasion, so there’s a legitimate concern by Russia with all of these —if you excuse my language— Nazis floating around in the Ukraine, then the simple question is: What was Russia to do?

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/norman-finkelstein-on-ideology-in-the-classroom-and-ukraine-the-debrief-with-briahna-joy-gray/

    1. Paul+Haeder,
      Excellent comment, per usual. We should not omit the determination of Bill and Hillary Clinton to force Russia to this very point and unseat Putin. They began this path to this point when Bill was president. I heard Putin say to Bill, “Maybe we should join NATO,” to which Bill replied, lying, “Maybe you should.” He also said, “To the Russians, the cold war is over, but not to us. We will shove NATO down the Russians’ throats.” If you read Hillary’s emails, you know, as president, she planned to first attack Iran, then pull a US coup in Russia, replacing Putin with a Yeltsin-like puppet. If she could do it in Ukraine, she could do it in Russia. Not getting to be president didn’t change their minds; it just resulted in the Russiagate hoax. Our MSM doesn’t talk about this, as they don’t talk about the 8-year war caused by the US coup in 2014 in which 14,000 Russian-speakers were murdered by the Ukrainian Nazis, another thing no longer talked about….the Nazi/Fascist idealogy running the Ukraine. Zelensky is Zolomoisky’s puppet and an idiot, to boot, screaming for every country on earth to send in more war weapons. Now that all things Russian are censored, I expect the US to become the most totalitarian country in the world. Fascistism always begins with censorship. Journalists are self-censoring to keep their jobs. No going off the dominant narrative. It’s laughable that Biden calls Putin a war criminal, when the Biden is an extreme war criminal.
      [PS I’m soing to respond to your other comment regarding the coming extinction of humans, the Swan report. Rob]

    2. oh Paul and haeder, what fountain of misinformation ye are… i don’t have time to address all the lies ye spout, but be it known that any child could google WW2 and find out that it was not RUSSIA who lost 27 million people, it was the USSR – and 5 to 7 million of those who died were UKRAINIANS… [who, btw, were well known to be the best soldiers in the red army…]
      and will ye stop yet with the NAZINAZINAZI shite? there are more nazis in russia than Ukraine… last elections they got one seat out of 500, and overall less than 3% of the vote! and why would the ‘Jerusalem Post’ write the following: “Ukraine today boasts the lowest rate of antisemitic sentiment in eastern Europe and probably most of western Europe too” , what is it ye know which is entirely hidden from the staunchly zionist ‘Jerusalem Post’? could it possibly be ye are full of propaganda-shite?
      See, not every Nationalist is a Nazi. i know, that confuses you – Mahatma Ghandi was a nationalist. he believed India should be a Nation independent of british or any other domination… so yes, there are a lot of NATIONALISTS in Ukraine who want the russian imperialist interference and threats to stop. and run their own country. by themselves for better or worse. this is called ‘self-determination, look it up… a ukrainian lady put it this way: ‘they say we have a corrupt government but at least it is OUR corrupt government’ [meaning we can change it in the next elections, which btw are far more free and fair in Ukraine than they ever were in russia….
      on a different note, addressing yer earlier lengthy kremlin-shillpost on the incredible success of the russian army in Ukraine… well they just got kicked out of Kharkiv, a city they tried to take since day one…. so go ahead now and spinspinspin it as another brilliant move by putin… yer efforts are always good for a laugh…..
      russia is calling up reservists now, no doubt cause it is going so well what with the chechen fighters and the wagner mercenaries stealing/torturing/raping/killing their way into the hearts and minds of the ‘liberated’ Ukrainian population….
      little fun fact to go out on: there are pics of Dmitry Utkin, the leader of the wagner group, sporting Nazi tattoos… but then you knew that, right? or ye blind in that eye?

    3. @Paul+Haeder
      the simple question is: What was Russia to do?””
      The simple answer : NOTHING!
      1.Demanding Ukraine neutralization is a blatant infringement of sovereignty (think a NATO demand for Belarus neutralization followed by invasion). Austria is not a valid comparison as it participated to the invasion of USSR as part of the 3rd Reich.
      2.NATO was a willing participant in diplomatic endeavors vis a vis Russia until 2014 invasion of Crimea, signing agreements, creating venues for discussion and cooperation (Russia-NATO Council).
      NATO expansion did not contravene signed agreements such as The Russia-NATO Founding Act and even after it the NATO Russia land borders are 2-3% of the total length of Russia borders. NATO agreed that no nuclear weapons will be stationed on new members territories.
      3.Ukraine has never been a de facto NATO member as is not protected by Article 5 which is the essence of NATO membership.
      According to the Britannica definition of NAZI
      1
      : a member of a German political party that controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler
      2
      disapproving : an evil person who wants to use power to control and harm other people especially because of their race, religion, etc.
      Putin is much more of a Nazi than Zelensky !!

      1. Great stuff here by Gilad Atzmon and Israel’s role in that dirty government of ZioLensky,

        https://rumble.com/embed/v12jlg9/

        ++–++

        Ah, Russia, get going on these freaks,

        Nazi Azovites – from rats in a hole to fish in a barrel – This is what denazification looks like!

        The New York Times prevaricates as follows: Ukraine ended its “combat mission” in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated, signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over. https://nyti.ms/3sIon9B

        Zelensky adds some Ukrainian/Cocainian dreams to that: “The evacuation mission from Azovstal continues. It is led by our military and intelligence officers.” (OK, Mr PianoDick, they’re being led straight into war criminal prison! – thank your military and intelligence officers for doing the job for the world!)

        Dmitry Polyansky says it differently: “I didn’t know English has so many ways to express a single message: the #Azovnazis have unconditionally surrendered.”

        Nightfall did not stop the surrender process. Ukrainians are still surrendering in crowds without stopping. Sufficient forces to deal with this are on the terrain and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the DPR are kicking ass and taking prisoners.

        Illumination rockets are constantly launched into the sky, which at least somehow facilitates the crawling out of underground inhabitants 🙂

        These invincible heroes are emaciated, ragged, hungry and a pitiful sight.

        Donetsk Defense HQ – 962 Azovites surrendered and the process continues. In the meantime, 11 servicemen of the 25th airborne brigade and seventeen of the 54th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine voluntarily laid down their arms and went over to the side of the DPR. We hope this is the start of a mass surrender.

        This is denazification and movies will be made and books will be written. After this major loss of prestige, expect a doozy of a false flag.

        +–+

        https://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-nato-surrenders-in-azovstal/

        Whitewashing Neo-Nazis in Ukraine & Biden’s “Disinformation Governing Board”

        https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/05/18/covertaction-bulletin-podcast-whitewashing-neo-nazis-in-ukraine-bidens-disinformation-governing-board/

        ++–++

        https://consortiumnews.com/2022/05/16/patrick-lawrence-the-new-iron-curtain/

        The Ukraine crisis proves to be Europe’s crucible and Europe proves a profound disappointment. We all would have gained, not Europeans alone, had the Continent’s leaders found the gumption to stand and act on their own and for their citizens’ interests.

        Policy cliques in Washington and the other Western capitals appear to have settled on our moment to circle the wagons. This is the broader context within which we ought to view the Finnish and Swedish moves toward NATO. There is no more space for outliers, no more time for fancy-pants straddling between East and West.

        In my read, this is at bottom a response to the single most compelling reality of our century, the emergence of parity between the West and non–West. We hear daily of how urgent it is to shovel weapons into Ukraine as quickly as possible. And it is urgent: This is a lunge in pursuit of the West’s longstanding superiority — a desperate defense of something that cannot be defended.

        One great difference between Cold War I and II is that the non–West is stronger now than it was. The nations that comprise it are technologically capable, they have their own markets, their own investment capital; a dense web of interdependent ties elaborates as we speak.

        These nations, as is already plain from the very short list of subscribers to the Washington-directed sanctions regime, will not be drawn into Cold War II as a long list of developing nations was during Cold War I — Cuba, Iran and Guatemala above all, and from there onto Vietnam, Angola, the other Central Americans, the American satellites in East Asia — Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Indonesia.

        With parity comes autonomy, to put this point another way.

        The West wants to divide the world once again, and it is building high, thick walls to get this done. If we can’t continue to subjugate them, the policy cliques appear to reason, let’s at least isolate them. It will be interesting — bitterly amusing, even — to see who turns out to be isolated as the West insists once again the twain must not meet.

      2. @Paul+Haeder
        Actually, this is building toward WW III and nuclear war. While I couldn’t be more opposed to U.S. empire, or any empire for that matter, I’d much rather see a dismantling of the empire than strong opposition that could lead to nuclear war. There are enough Dr. Strangeloves & General Rippers on all major sides to make a nuclear war far too likely.

      3. altey concistently articulates nazi values—were you banned at breitbart?

    1. @niko followed yer link. truly eye-opening, especially the part where Noam Chomsky is unmasked as yet another stooge of the U>S> propaganda machine…. but well, Noam has a long history of sullied integrity and mindless repetition of propaganda, i mean -as we all know – the man is a joke, totally incapable of independent thinking! [or concise language] and his hatred of all things russian is an open secret, que no?. thank you very much for this gem!!!

  12. Our culture is infused with militarism since at least WWII. We are now a warlike nation of “warriors” vis a vi the peace through strength doctrine. Now there is an oxymoron peace/strength, or excuse me, strength/peace, the war always precedes peace, the peace of a grave yard (Neruda). Our sick economy produces excessive waste that conditions people to spend all our time consuming and wasting, this includes colossal military eco-waste. Evangelical culture teaches that the war in Ukraine and the climate emergency are God’s will, our responsibility on (mother) Earth is to be pius, prosperous and militaristic.

    1. @Bill Nelson
      It’s way past time to evolve past all of this crap. I’ve gotten to the point where I’m really sick of it and am ready to get a sailboat and just go live on some small tropical south Pacific island with no airport that can only be reach by water.

      1. A journey to paradise is a path paved by nuclear hell and testicular cancer and, heck, brain tumors.

        The Bikini Atoll, a remote location in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, looks like a vacation paradise, but is actually a shining hell. At the beginning of the Cold War, the United States conducted nuclear weapons tests there. Back then, the Americans were much more than just trying out a new weapon technology. The two-part documentary explains the historical background of the forgotten nuclear war and reveals how the bombs continue to have an effect today.

        Free to watch:

        https://youtu.be/NjqoiT-RS4A

      2. @Paul+Haeder
        I was thinking of somewhere west of French Polynesia. I certainly wouldn’t live anywhere near the Bikini atoll, and I’m unfortunately very familiar with that horrible story.

        I sailed to Tahiti from San Francisco Bay in 1995, and shortly after I got there, Greenpeace began leading a huge demonstration at the capital (Papeete) against an above-ground nuclear test that France was about to conduct. Islands like that are conical (because they’re volcanic) and have one main road that rings the outside edge of the island, and the demonstrators had the road blocked for a couple of miles on each side of Papeete. It was cool hanging out with them and listening to them speak Tahitian, even though I only knew about 3 Tahitian words (I didn’t want to speak French with them for obvious reasons, and they knew a little English). Some of them were imitating the French by making French sounds (the only way I can describe it), and it was pretty funny. After I left Tahiti, I learned that France did eventually detonate a nuclear bomb about 600 miles from Tahiti. The native Tahitians were so pissed off that they burned down the airport!

      3. I’d choose Cuba, so peaceful there. St. Petersburg, too, so superior to US cities.

      4. @Rob Roy
        I like the South Pacific more than the Caribbean, and I like small islands better than big ones because they’re not as hot, as the surrounding ocean moderates the temperature. But to each their own, and the Caribbean is a cool party place, just not what I’m looking for at my age.

        BTW, the only reason I returned here from Tahiti was because I ran out of money (I saved as much as I could before I left, but I was only making $10/hr, so I only had about $1,000 when I left). If I hadn’t run out of money, I’d never have left the South Pacific, it would have been a no-brainier as far as I’m concerned.

      5. Ahh, chosing where one wantst to live. I really do miss Andre Vltchek, and here, one of his pieces about the expatriots:

        https://www.newageislam.com/islam-west/andre-vltchek/stop-millions-western-immigrants/d/104867

        9 Oct 2015,
        Stop Millions Of Western Immigrants!

        By Andre Vltchek

        Tens of millions of European and North American immigrants, legal and illegal, have been flooding both the cities and countryside in Asia, Latin America, and even Africa.

        Western migrantsare charging like bulls and the ground is shaking under their feet; they are fleeing Europe and North America in hordes. Deep down they cannot stand their own lifestyle, their own societies, but you would hardly hear them pronounce it. They are too proud and too arrogant! But, after recognizinginnumerable areas of the world as suitable for their personal needs – as safe, attractive and cheap – they simply pack and go!

        We are told that some few hundred thousand African and Asian exiles are now causing a great “refugee crises” all over Europe! Governments and media are spreading panic, borders are being re-erected and armed forces areinterrupting the free movement of people. But the number of foreigners illegally entering Europe is incomparably smaller than the number of Western migrants that are inundating, often illegally, virtually all corners of the world.

        No “secret paradise” can be hidden any longer and no country can maintain itsreasonable price structure. Potential European,North American and Australianimmigrants are determined to enrich themselves by any means, atthe expense of local populations.They are constantly searching for bargains: monitoring prices everywhere, ready to move at the spur of the moment, as long as the place offers some great bargains, has lax immigration laws, and a weak legal framework.

        Everything pure and untapped gets corrupted. With lightning speed, Western immigrantsare snatching reasonably priced real estate and land. Then, they impose their lifestyle on all those “newly conquered territories”. As a result, entire cultures are collapsing or changing beyond recognition.

        Overall, Western immigrants are arrogant and stubborn; they feel no pity for the countries they are inundating. What surrounds them is only some colorful background to their precious lives. They are unable and unwilling to “adopt” local customs, because they are used to the fact that theirs is the “leading culture” – the culture that controls the world.

      6. Paul+Haeder,
        That’s an interesting comment and, frankly, is in no way applicable to me. I’m not one of those people. Wherever I have been and wherever I might go, I never have any disrespect for another countryman/woman. I was in Florence and heard a woman from Texas say to her husband, “I want to go home. I’m getting tired of all these foreigners,” Yep, true story. Please don’t lump all immigrants leaving this country together in the same stupid group. Your take can be applied here, too. A guy from Vietnam said to me here in thus country, “Americans are stupid.” Although I tend to agree, I would never say anything like that in another country.
        Cheers, Rob

      7. @Paul+Haeder
        First, we’re dreaming. I don’t know about Rob, but I’m not going anywhere as much as I’d like to. Can’t afford it for one thing (though maybe I could if we sold our house, but my wife doesn’t sail and hates boats, so the whole idea is just fantasy mixed with fond memories).

        Second, as I said in my response to Bill Nelson, I’d like to go to a small island with no airport, which means that it’s only accessible by water. I’m not an ugly American, and I wouldn’t try to live the American lifestyle elsewhere (I barely live it here; no car, for example). I’d be happy just swimming, snorkeling, sailing, and sitting on the beach, all while meditating and expanding my consciousness.

  13. The more conflict I see, the more I come to the realization that the players are not merely those in the news. The players are behind the scenes, the super wealthy for whose benefit these wars are continued. In fact it may very well be true that the US and Russia while appearing to be at odds, are merely playing out a drama for the benefit of their Bosses. The Illuminati claims control of the world. You see this is all entertainment magazines with the Stars posing in the familiar One Eye sign pose, or the hidden hand, or 666. It is so repetitive that one wonders whether these people have a mind of their own or whether they sold their souls to the devil?

      1. @Rob Roy
        I just focus on the ruling class, which is comprised of the richest people who are involved politically, either openly or covertly. There are too many of their instruments and organizations to keep them straight, and it doesn’t really matter. Focus on Gates, Zuckerberg, Musk, Bezos, the Koch brothers, the Mellons, the Morgans, the Rockefellers, the Rothchilds, etc. That’s where the real power on this planet lies, to the extent that it exists. You can make yourself dizzy trying to figure out all of their organizations.

      2. It is the chickens coming home to roost, Rob Roy. The Eichmann’s, and all those compliant millionaires, and those wanting that first million. They have entered into a Faustian Bargain, but they don’t even know that fact.

        The super rich are not manipulating the minds of the super idiots, from pigs/cops, judges/DA’s, teachers, MIC, all those Eichmanns in finance, real estate, pharma, chemical, mining, energy, oil, prisons, media, arts/entertainment, AI, AR VR, big ag, etc.

        There are some bad bad hombred in the point zero zero One Percent, and in the 19 Percent (most) and some in the 80 Percent.

        “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”

        ― D.H. Lawrence, Studies in Classic American Literature

        +_-+

        If America is the culmination of Western white civilization, as everyone from the Left to the Right declares, then there must be something terribly wrong with Western white civilization. This is a painful truth; few of us want to go that far…. The truth is that Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, Balanchine ballets, et al, don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone—its ideologies and inventions—which eradicates autonomous civilizations wherever it spreads, which has upset the ecological balance of the planet, which now threatens the very existence of life itself.

        —Susan Sontag

        +–+
        Good stuff over at Silicon Icarus.

        https://siliconicarus.org/

        Protected: The Mystical Reich: Proto-Fascist Roots of Social Finance and the Secret Cult Infusing the Green Economy – Part II

        Technocracy’s General: Michael Saylor, Bitcoin and the Binary Control Paradigm
        OCTOBER 18, 2021

        New COVID-19 Security Measures Will Make Health a Prerequisite for Travel
        OCTOBER 23, 2020

        Vulture Capitalism: Israeli “Empathy” App’s Ties to Digital Healthcare and Impact Investment
        OCTOBER 4, 2021

        For FinTech Magnates: Digital Dollars for the Poor, Exponential Profits for the Rich
        FEBRUARY 24, 2021

        Or, wrench in the gears,

        What Does Twitter Have To Do With Cybernetic Ethics And Moral Capitalism?
        https://wrenchinthegears.com/

      3. @Paul+Haeder
        While Susan Sontag has it right about what white people have done to other people and the planet, she’s wrong to say that only white people have “upset the ecological balance.” The ecological balance was upset when people started using agriculture 10-12,000 years ago in the Middle East, and I don’t think that they were necessarily white. She’s also wrong to complain about civilizations being destroyed, when it’s civilizations that are destroying the planet, and that means ALL civilizations, not just white ones.

  14. the amerikan war in Ukraine has been terminated by Russia—much of ukraine has already be deazified and liberated by Russia. amerikan fascism will incentivize a frozen condition similar to the Koreas. so far Russia has committed 10% of its troops in ukraine. absent a settlement a larger commitment could be even more disastrous for ukraine

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