Chris Hedges Forever Wars Imperialism Interview Politics

Michael Moore and Chris Hedges on American Empire at Its Breaking Point

Documentary filmmaker Michael Moore is preparing for the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks—or more specifically, for the barrage of mainstream media coverage and commemoration soon to dominate screens big and small. For the latest episode of his podcast, “Rumble With Michael Moore,” he picked just the right guest to take on “the collapse of the American empire and to pre-empt the propaganda onslaught we’re about to be hit with,” as Moore put it in his show notes.

That would be author, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and ScheerPost columnist Chris Hedges. Moore and Hedges’ unflinching discussion ranges from a preview of Hedges’ newest book, “Our Class Trauma and Transformation in an American Prison,” to the “creeping fascism” that didn’t start (or end) with Trump, the war in Afghanistan, and the calamitous threat to millions of Americans posed by the imminent ending of pandemic-era unemployment benefits.

And that’s just for starters. They also weigh in about President Joe Biden’s role in perpetuating both empire abroad and “creeping fascism” at home, the lack of meaningful push-back from figures like Sen. Bernie Sanders, and the relentless influence of the Christian right in U.S. politics. Press play in the window above to catch their whole conversation, and listen for Moore’s enthusiastic signal boost of ScheerPost starting around the 8:35 mark.


  1. Thank you for this conversation with one of the most important voices of our times. After reading several of his books I met Chris Hedges, and Bob Scheer in 2012 on a retreat in Santa Fe that they held for Truthdig, the now defunct blogpost they ran after being fired from The NY Times, and the LA Times ( Scheer). Like yourself, Hedges and Scheer are not afraid to speak truth to power (and all the rest of us). In times when it can be difficult to connect all the dots and make sense of events, I turn to Chris and Bob.

    Chris and his son led a hike in the spectacular hills outside Santa Fe. And we visited Los Alamos, of course because Bob and Chris had questions! It was an eye-opening retreat for me and I continue to follow Chris’ endeavours such as counselling prison inmates!
    It is good to hear you and Chris speak of hope in the face of today’s madness.

    You three are my heroes!
    Thank you !

    But … is there any hope for mankind?
    Please watch The Pale Blue Dot by Carl Sagan (YouTube)

  2. Chris Hedges, respect. Micheal Moore not so much. The money and the easy living took away whatever edge he had a long time ago. Vote for Hillary….Vote for Biden….. Need I say more? When was the last time you visited Flint Micheal?

    thought so…..

  3. Michael Moore can’t be serious when he claims electing Obama was an improvement. Obama was Bush’s 3rd and 4th term.

    But that’s always been my biggest problem with Michael. He sees the Democrats as a “solution” instead of the other half of the problem.

    1. I think it’s just a matter of playing defense. After Bernie was out of the picture, what else are we supposed to do? I agree the democrats suck, but they suck significantly less than Trump and the full on fascists.

      1. The only difference between the two parties is rhetoric. At the policy level they are identical.

      2. You still don’t get it. The US government IS a 1-party state. The Dems just throw out more socialist crumbs to the masses. Because you may think that the Dems can save you, maybe some day you’ll understand that you too have embraced the corporate capitalist 1-party state. Listen to Chris Hedges. He’s been trying to tell everyone what’s happening in the US especially. The US Empire is finally dying and they will bring you down with them unless all of you stand up and take to the streets to push them out. Just like has happened throughout history in similar situations.

    2. You’re dead on correct. Michael is delusional if he thinks the Democrats are going to do anything more than the status quo.

  4. Michael – Please don’t support any more Democratic Party candidates – we need INDEPENDENT politics apart from the mainstream – – otherwise people get paid off one way or another and we’re getting nowhere.

  5. Where is the piece about preparing for the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks—or more specifically, for the barrage of mainstream media coverage and commemoration soon to dominate screens big and small. I just listened to this in it’s entirety. There was no mention of 9 11.

  6. I loved this interview: it had a redemptive quality (I ceased to believe there was even the possibility of purpose left. My biggest hope may honestly have been the a human extinction event, because I mourn what we’ve done to the Earth). Chris Hedges, there’s only one person I can compare you with and that is Theodore Adorno, of the Frankfurt School: you should read his book, Minima Moralia, if you haven’t already, because it evokes in me what hearing you evokes in me, and it has that peculiar emotional quality that comes fromexpressing truthfully and elegantly the utter blackness and horror of what is, and I think in both his and your writing – which I say are unique in this respect – the power to stare so intently at the truth of what is seems to rest entirely on an unusual capacity to hold onto some relic of religion, in your case to faith and the hope it gives you, and the belief that the good attracts the good, and in his case an image of utopia (paradise) from utterly inexplicable origins which haunts his works, as a negative of what is, and an equally inexplicable light of redemption, which falls on and puts right the truth of what is, and is at the same time the light of truth: these things come out of no-where, because he’s writing in exile as a Jew in advanced capitalist, consumerist civilization the horror of which is perfectly transparent to him, he’s an atheist, an intellectual, and a pessamist. Actually I felt the image of utopia, and possibly also the light of redemption, is rooted in his childhood memories which also haunt this emotional and powerful work which is at the same time a meditation on the full horror of what is. You must read it! It’s one of my favourite books, no doubt a very odd favourite to most people who know it. For the same reason you’re one of my favourite people to listen to and it is a religious feeling that you elicite, and genuinely, a sense of peace, because there is someone who looks and stairs it out and whose dignity and vision don’t subsequently fail them (I turn mine off through drugs: hearing you is proof that there is a way other than drugs or suicide to survive in this world outside of it’s illusions). Please come back and do another episode with Michael Moore because he lets you talk and keeps the conversation real, i.e. not merely intellectual, i.e. distant.

  7. The interview with Chris Hedges, on “Rumble…” was quite remarkably spot-on; not that that is surprising!

  8. Chris Hedges is the moral leader we need right now.
    I’m so thankful he can present the history of empire to us. Perhaps we can change things.

  9. Great! Thanks for all the info, even if hard to hear. “The world seen clearly is seen through tears”

  10. We need to regulate the size of the worlds war machines, it’s active conflicts, the number of bullets, guns, boots, vehicles, airplanes, missiles, subs, fuel consumption, the size of research and development budgets……and then use some of that money to massively increase the research budget for longevity research…..see any videos by Aubrey de Grey, and the SENS project, the mprize project….also check out web site…it’s well written and explains the progress and pitfalls of the current aging research stuff, if you have a background in the medical sciences etc…Aubrey has been financing research into aging and has yearly get together of aging researchers and has been doing this for like 20 years (was featured on cbs’s 60 min show years ago! Currently he figures that we are a couple of years away from curing aging in mice with people soon after that….!?

    1. WTF! Today’s teenagers may be lucky (?) to see their thirties and with the massive degradations of climate change and incipient fascism, you’re concerned about anti-aging?

  11. Thanks for sharing this informative information. I look forward to hearing more. Also hope to leave some comments in the future.

  12. I can’t use twitter, facebook or any of the big tech. social media outlets because of my posting of what I believe to have been and still believe to be the truth on the pandemic, the virus and the vaccine.
    As far as abortion goes I believe a woman should have the right to choose.
    I just don’t post anything I feel or I’ve read or seen. I do my home work and if I feel strongly about the issue and the lies being told by the media I’ll do to them what they do to us. That is bombard them with facts from top virologists, epidemiologists, Scientists and medical professionals that have been silenced from every where,
    To seek and find the true reason our government is trying so damn hard to have every man, woman and child vaccinated even when their own institution state the opposite.
    I’m scared for my children and family and don’t understand why our own government hates us and is doing this.
    Sorry for being off topic but I needed to vent my feelings and Ifeel I speak for millions around the USA..

  13. But the uncomfortable question that every social critic from Noam Chomsky on down ignores, is “WHO DUN IT?” Was it an inside job?

    1. Read footnote 13 on page 82 of NCSTAR1 and page 45 and 46 of NCSTAR1A. The one is the final report on the twin towers and the other is the final report on WTC7. Read that very carefully and you will understand that NIST is lying.
      They did not include an analysis of the structural behavior during the collapse of any of twin towers (see footnote 13) and for the WTC7 they say it actually was in Free Fall for more than 2 seconds. That can only be achieved by planned demolition.

      1. I have really come to love this site over the past couple of months, but two things about it bug me a little:

        1. The seemingly unconditional love for Vladimir Putin put on display here (possibly because “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” or some such humbug), and

        2. The fact that your moderators allow such bullsh*t as the above two comments to be posted. You’re better than this, Scheerpost!

  14. I loved the Moore/Hedges interview! But I contend that both of you are failing to talk about the only way to economically re-integrate the Christian Right (as well as millions of others) back into American society. That said, please tell me why The Economic Democracy Act, as described in the article below, is not the solution to 90% of the problems discussed in this wonderful interview? I look forward to hearing back from either or both of you.

  15. Towards the end of the interview, Moore and Hedges talk about how to find the good in the midst of despair, and note just “hope-ium” as Moore suggests. I don’t think anyone sympathetic to the interview will think there’s a silver bullet that will fix everything: we know the world doesn’t work that way. I’d offer that we are not alone in trying to face adversity, there are many people trying to do good and improve the human condition: as Hedges suggests, the good draws to itself the good.

    There aren’t any guarantees that we’ll find a humane way forward to deal with the American Empire, or climate change, or powerful technology like nuclear weapons. Dealing with overwhelming adversity, facing fearful odds (as in the Lays of Ancient Rome), is part of the human condition, too. Many have faced such adversity before and many do now. How we face adversity, however hard it is to swim to shore, is a choice we all can make. I don’t think it’s fair to judge our choices and our efforts, solely by the outcome: there can be ripples that affect others in ways you cannot predict, such as when Michael Moore talked about Ramparts magazine and how its articles influenced him as a young man.

    1. It may not be a silver bullet but nobody, including Moore and Hedges seem to know anything about The Economic Democracy Act, (explained in the article below) which looks to me like the ONLY way out of the current swamp we find ourselves in. Mike, Chris, if I’m wrong and you are aware of it, I’d love to hear why you’re both failing to tell the American people about it??? If you’re unaware of it please read the following and I’ll look forward to hearing your reactions!!

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