As millions of Americans struggle with soaring rents, crushing childcare costs, stagnant wages and a political system increasingly captured by wealth, a new political force has emerged from New York City. In this episode of Scheer Intelligence, Robert Scheer speaks with journalist and author Ted Hamm about the remarkable rise of Mayor Zohran Mamdani — a self-described democratic socialist whose message of affordability, economic justice and political independence has transformed him from insurgent candidate to one of the most closely watched political figures in America.
Drawing on his new book Meet Mayor Mamdani, Hamm traces how Mamdani built a coalition around issues that cut across traditional political divides: housing, transit, childcare, inequality and the growing sense that the American economic model no longer works for ordinary people. The conversation explores whether Mamdani represents a revival of New Deal-style politics, why his success has rattled Democratic Party leaders, and how his outspoken support for Palestinian rights has reshaped political debate far beyond New York.
At a moment when both major parties face deep public distrust, Scheer and Hamm examine whether Mamdani’s rise is an isolated phenomenon—or the leading edge of a broader political realignment. Can a movement built around affordability and economic democracy challenge the power of billionaires, corporate interests and party insiders? Or will the forces that have long dominated American politics ultimately absorb or defeat it? The answers may help determine not only the future of New York City, but the future direction of American politics itself.
Rushed Transcript:
00:00.56
Robert Scheer
hi this is Robert Scheer with another edition of Scheer Intelligence, a ridiculous title given to me by the KCRW, the NPR station in Santa Monica, which no longer carries these shows. But I was there for, i don’t know, 20 years in one capacity or another.
00:15.99
Robert Scheer
was a great run. But NPR, I don’t think is quite what it was once. Maybe I’m wrong. But I’m here, and this is something we put up on Sheer Post, and that will do fine, and it’s carried elsewhere. And I’m talking to somebody I met, I guess, while I was still at the LA Times.
00:35.91
Robert Scheer
I used to write for the Brooklyn Rail, and while others, many other publications. And he’s written, i would argue, I mean, the only really serious book, certainly the most important book about the mayor of New York, maybe not that name, originally his campaign, now he’s got a new edition out, it’s expanded to cover the first part of his administration in New York and his victory. I’m gonna let him tell you all about this, but what I really like is you got a kinda, I don’t know what Jimmy Breslin style reporting,
01:09.91
Robert Scheer
dealing with New York, you know, you don’t you know pretend. You got the dude and the, you know, this one and that one, and they’re in a cockfight and they walk into a bar and everything else. So it’s that kind of New York journalism that I grew up reading.
01:24.59
Robert Scheer
So why don’t I let you take it from here? You were, I mean, you ought to be applauded for your wisdom, at least, in predicting that Mandanity was real and was going far.
01:38.84
Robert Scheer
And I must say, I didn’t believe it when I first read about it But then again, I’m out in California. And I thought, you know, ah what chances does this guy have against the big Tammany, what remains of the Tammany Hall machine?
01:53.27
Robert Scheer
So tell me, you you were right, you called it right, and now are you happy with the first months? is it is Or is this yet another politician betraying us?
02:05.40
Ted Hamm
Well, let’s first circle back to the campaign and then maybe we we could talk about the the recent few months. But yeah, so back in the fall, we spoke about first edition of the book Run, Zeron, Run.
02:21.62
Ted Hamm
And that covered his rise in city politics, his career before city politics, and then his rise in city politics, his upset victory over Cuomo, but it then it stopped after the primary. So now the current edition Meet Mayor Mamdani, also from Orr Books.
02:39.45
Ted Hamm
That is covering from the mid-summer through when Zoran took office in early January. So it follows the campaign where it left where the first edition Run Zoran Run left out, but Run Zoran Run is actually it in included in Meet Mayor Mamdani. So the whole edition covers the entire campaign.
03:04.50
Robert Scheer
Yeah, let me just add gratefully that I think it only costs nine bucks to get it on Kindle, not that I’m pushing Kindle. And I guess if you could buy it in an independent bookstore or something, it’d be much to be preferred.
03:16.78
Robert Scheer
But it is a delight because that was one of the the real virtue of e-books, they used to be cheap. Now they jack up the price like crazy, even though it doesn’t cost that much to produce them, obviously.
03:29.44
Robert Scheer
But I do recommend reading it because it’s it really gets you – New York City was always great a great place to cover politics. i mean When I grew up, just as a little footnote, ah um I’m 30 years older than you, So, you know, they had the New York City Council had some communists, I think two or three on on the city council, three members of the American Labor Party.
03:49.85
Ted Hamm
Yeah. Sure.
03:53.13
Robert Scheer
You had, you know, progressive newspapers, you know, in New York, even the Post, which is now right wing was good. somewhat you know to the left, but you had PM, you had I.F.
04:03.29
Ted Hamm
sure
04:05.16
Robert Scheer
Stone writing and people like that. And you know ah the idea of socialism was not alien to the culture of New York. You had strong progressive labor movement there.
04:16.77
Robert Scheer
And one of the things Mandani has been fighting for And something that it was long-lasting was rent control. And one of his three planks, you know, preserved rent control.
04:28.87
Robert Scheer
I remember as a kid in the Bronx, the only way we got, you know, to pay to rent every month is there was rent control. In fact, we went without a refrigerator for about a year while they contested who had to pay for the new refrigerator.
04:42.45
Robert Scheer
Could they raise the rent to pay for it? David Larson, Ph.D.: going ah every day to a neighbor to get the milk or something, because we were a test case so well you know New York City has really gone back to its roots in a way with man Danny and the big question is it a model for the nation.
04:50.04
Ted Hamm
Sure. Well,
04:57.59
Ted Hamm
well, that there was, Sure. well Well, that was actually a focus of my book a few years ago that we talked about, Bernie’s Brooklyn, about when Bernie grew up in um what he calls Flatbush, but now everyone refers to as Midwood. But in any case, he grew up in Brooklyn during the LaGuardia era and all the things you’re describing.
05:22.10
Ted Hamm
And now Mamdani is clearly an heir to Bernie and Bernie campaigned with him a few times during the 2025 election and so on. So, you know, he he but Bernie has protégés across the nation, really. But two the the two most prominent, I would say, are AOC, who he was doing the fighting oligarchy tour with, and now Mamdani.
05:48.92
Ted Hamm
So… Yeah, there is a ah legacy that they’re reviving from the socialist era or so when there onces was, I wouldn’t call it full fledged socialism, obviously, but in the LaGuardia era, there was all of the things you were mentioning, an active labor movement, left wing candidates and actual policy achievements, that low cost health care was one, it was another a good one. And also,
06:16.06
Ted Hamm
ah expansion of creek CUNY and higher ed, which which was free at the time and so on. So a lot of things, there’s a lot of legacies to build on it and Mamdani’s been doing, paying homage to some, not and some, but not by no means all of those things because it would be um unworkable to propose them all at once. But we we’re seeing some of that era come back to life through his exciting presence and campaign 2025 and now to know while he’s in office.
06:50.11
Robert Scheer
Yeah. Hello?
06:52.25
Ted Hamm
yeah
06:53.55
Robert Scheer
Yeah. But but you know the point is, while this stuff seems radical, it’s the norm in much of the capitalist world. Forget about societies that say they’re not or challenging capitalism.
07:03.86
Ted Hamm
yes
07:09.06
Robert Scheer
I mean, Mamdani and Germany, for example, would not be considered particularly left, I don’t think.
07:18.74
Ted Hamm
Right. Well, that yeah, a bunch of European and commentators writing about my book and and ah coming and coming to events and so on, that you know, they would just say all this stuff seems pretty straightforward to us. Even the right wing in Europe ah realizes, that recognizes the need for child care, cheap transportation, and so on. So, you know, it’s the fact that it’s so alien to contemporary United States, well then that’s…
07:47.03
Ted Hamm
in large part because the Democrats don’t even propose anything along those lines, right? So you have both parties, whether you want to call them neoliberal, and not now Trump has an ideology ah of of its own, but that you know they’re they’re not proposing anything to advance ah equality or any kind of new programs, or the Democrats certainly, you can’t expect that from the but Republicans, but we’d like to think that the Democrats will be pushing these kinds of things.
08:16.33
Robert Scheer
Well, it’s interesting, you know, because the big contradiction in capitalism now is that income has become so skewed to a small minority. It’s made a ah caricature of capitalism. I mean, the there is no invisible hand of the kind Adam Smith was talking about.
08:35.36
Robert Scheer
These people control the government. They operate in a totally unregulated environment. That’s why google you know You look at these companies, they buy up all the competition.
08:46.30
Robert Scheer
There’s no ah free market. And the key word here, and and rereading your book this time in the new chapters, is the word affordability, that seems to have been the main fuel of the Mamdani saying that the fact that for most, yeah,
08:59.74
Ted Hamm
Yeah. And what he was he was also pushing that affordability agenda in a moment where we start to see articles about Elon Musk becoming a trillionaire and you know the the grotesque amounts of a disparate income disparity that we’re witnessing throughout the United States, but also but obviously playing out directly in New York. So people were saying, well, okay, well, we have all of this wealth. why we wouldn’t What he’s proposing is actually pretty modest. And why why don’t we get on board with this affordability agenda? So that that’s one of the things I show in this the new edition of the book is how, you know, in the primary, he was appealing to more activist
09:42.14
Ted Hamm
voters who typically come out in the primary and now in the general election he had to appeal to more mainstream democrats and he uh and he did right because in the primary he got over 500 000 votes when all were counted but then in the general election he got over 1.1 million so or more than doubled his total in the general election. And so he had to really make this affordability case to mainstream Democrats. And he did. Right. And he had some support from within the party. Obviously, you didn’t get the support of the top players in the party. And Chuck Schumer, Kirsten Gillibrand and Hakeem Jeffries was late and very half half hearted when he did when he did endorse him. But, you know, he did manage. He did work closely with Governor Hochul, you work closely with Attorney General Tish James, who’s very popular among black um older black Democrats in the city. So, you know, he was working with mainstream Democrats in and pushing his agenda and reaching voters effectively. And you know obviously,
10:48.22
Ted Hamm
he was the young charismatic figure and you had these older guys who were just throwing cold cold water on everything he was proposing. Andrew Cuomo was just so incredibly bitter and sour. And you know at one point he was saying, everything about that he’s proposing is BS. It’s all BS. Right. And not meanwhile, he wasn’t Cuomo wasn’t offering anything himself. so That’s one of the main themes of the new edition of book is’s showing how Mamdani was proposing something, whereas his opponents were proposing nothing. And, you know, voters respond to something. um And that’s the secret, one of the secrets of its success.
11:28.61
Robert Scheer
Yeah, but I want to get to some more basic issue, the basic issue here, which is, and this has been conceded even by Elon Musk and others, Jeff Pezos, who are actually saying things now about maybe you need a guaranteed annual income, which after all, Richard Nixon supported, or they’re saying there has to be some kind of what sovereign fund that will invest in the public the way they do in Norway with their oil
11:44.23
Ted Hamm
you
11:58.35
Robert Scheer
revenues and so forth. And there’s a recognition that the you know the thing we were promised was an ever expanding middle class. That was the great thing from the Tuckville on, you know this was going to save us. And the fact is they’ve destroyed capitalism as a vital agency for organization. Ironically, the best capitalists now far and away are the Chinese communists.
12:24.17
Robert Scheer
you Far and away.
12:25.50
Ted Hamm
Right.
12:25.89
Robert Scheer
Everybody has to concede it. And why? Because they at least have some kind of propaganda, ideological conception of of the mass. And they also have the wisdom of Confucius that an emperor that doesn’t care about the mass is going to have his head cut off, you know, that the instability comes from this and so you you have a sense this can’t go on now i mean we don’t have a middle class now effectively and new york is just you know it’s interesting uh i know i’m being naive here but donald trump really he said all these things called him a communist mom danny and everything else but at the end of the day he welcomed him to the white house right
12:55.40
Ted Hamm
Thank you.
13:07.76
Ted Hamm
Right. Well, that lot of in large part, it is explained, I think, by Donald Trump’s deep roots in in New York City and is the fact that he was impressed by the celebrity status of Mamdani and the fact that he got, as I mentioned, over 1.1 million votes, which was so far more than Trump ever got in any of his three presidential runs, right?
13:30.54
Ted Hamm
So, you know, you I think when when Mom and Daddy had that famous meeting with him, he was Trump was going on about how he really wanted to be the mayor and so and so on. So, you know,
13:39.87
Robert Scheer
No, let’s not trivial. I’m mean not accusing you this, but I don’t want to trivialize this. And I think Trump, you know, he’s got ah obviously got a lot of major failings that we’re all aware of, but he’s a pretty shrewd observer of what sells and what doesn’t sell, you know.
13:57.63
Robert Scheer
And and he look, his relations with China, after all, you know, it’s one thing to get along with Putin, who has renounced communism, but But the Chinese haven’t, you know, and and there’s a recognition, you know, and look, come on, Elon Musk makes so most of his cars in red China, communist China, you know.
14:19.06
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
14:19.12
Robert Scheer
And and and what I think there is is a recognition that ah the capitalist, the assumption that capitalism was the best route to democracy, to stability and all of that has been severely challenged.
14:33.55
Robert Scheer
you know And the evidence is all around this, whether it’s global warming you know ah waste or waste. And now with AI, for example, the you know just the casual predictions that people will not be able to find jobs in you know things they were expected to, they went to school for, they studied for, including law even, and you know a lot of engineering, a lot of you know medical research, and so forth.
14:51.61
Ted Hamm
Yeah. yeah
14:58.88
Robert Scheer
So you get back, I remember John Kenneth Galbraith, who was our ambassador to India, but also, you know, he’s originally Canadian, but was really sort of the leading social economist. I don’t mean socialist, but, you know some sense of beyond the econometrics, some sense of how society is really working.
15:16.12
Robert Scheer
work, they call it political economy. He wrote a book called The Affluent Society back in and the 60s, early 60s, maybe the 50s even, where he said you got to spread it around.
15:27.79
Robert Scheer
you know You can’t just concentrate wealth. There’s no market. There’s no stability. And that is why I think Mamdani is the most single most important political figure in America right now.
15:41.26
Robert Scheer
which is why I want to promote your book because you really capture it very effectively. And I say that because he hasn’t sold out, at least so far, because what the norm is you’ll promise all these things and then you’ll sell sell out.
15:56.63
Ted Hamm
well,
15:56.72
Robert Scheer
He seems to understand that the ballgame has changed. You know, and and the reality is, you know what he said in his campaign is going to seem more relevant next year and four years from now whatever, you know, because prices are not coming down.
16:11.99
Ted Hamm
Well, yeah. I mean, I think the reality, though, is the mayor of New York City can’t really initiate many redistributive policies that address the problems that he’s like facing, i mean or that we’re all that we’re all facing.
16:14.24
Robert Scheer
Yeah.
16:31.10
Ted Hamm
um and you know So he can propose tax increases, but that they have to go through Albany. The governor herself, is a her husband’s a millionaire, and she doesn’t want to raise taxes on their friends and herself and And he’s been able to push forward with some of his major initiatives like childcare because Governor Hochul is on board with that. because Business leaders throughout the city are also some supportive of it because they have to pay their employees a lot more money than other than in other places because the cost of childcare is so significant in New York City. But the fact of is that New York State’s budget is so…
17:15.38
Ted Hamm
ah flush with with cash right now that she has all these billions of dollars to move around. And, you know, so she’s been able to push, steer some funds towards childcare that helps mom, daddy, but it doesn’t actually follow through on the redistribute wealth aspect of his platform, right? So it is initiating beneficial social policy, but it’s, you know, it’s not not doing it in a way that upsets the the billionaire millionaire and billionaire class that Helcow is so concerned about.
17:50.05
Robert Scheer
Yeah, but that’s not how politics works. Politics works so in who can control the narrative. And the narrative, going back to Ronald Reagan, for instance, who ironically was a union leader, and he wrote a book once called the The Rest of Me or something, I remember. And I interviewed him quite often, now you know not quite, about five times. and I followed him before he was governor. Ronald Reagan always said the Democratic Party, ah you know that he didn’t change, the Democratic Party changed, but he he didn’t put a class headshot on it. But his father lost his job during the Depression. His father worked for the New Deal, and he always praised Roosevelt. He always praised those Democrats. And after all, Roosevelt was a rich man you know from Hyde Park. park up there in upstate. But the fact is, Roosevelt understood the game was over.
18:45.66
Robert Scheer
You have to do something here. And and and this reality, it’s not that Mamdani has to and educate us to the current reality. We all know it.
18:56.73
Robert Scheer
I mean, this is a very unhappy country now. Only half the country blames the other half out of false consciousness about what’s caused this. But they know it’s not working. okay And I want to take a couple of examples, like, for instance, college education. you know One of the things driving this class division, you can’t go to one of the colleges that matter in terms of getting your career going. If you don’t go broke or if you don’t have a rich family, you mentioned public education. Growing up in New York in my time, I was in the first, one of the first classes at City College there where we had to pay for textbooks.
19:34.52
Robert Scheer
and We were shocked by it. No, the textbooks are supposed to be free like they were in high school. And there was no talk of tuition. You know, I live with my my mother in the Bronx, but I mean, I went to the best school in New York. We thought we were better than Columbia or NYU. And, you know, ah ah ah you could call him pal. I was in his class in engineering. We didn’t think we were being deprived.
19:59.03
Robert Scheer
We thought, you know, we’re going to the best place, the the Harvard of the ordinary people. And, you know, and Mimdani is evoking a lot of that, you know, and and in the it works in New York more than in a rural area because you’re right there with the class division. You know, those people, aren they don’t take the subway and they don’t care whether the buses move fast and they don’t have to worry about rent control. However, we’re here also and we got to vote, right? and And you better do something about it. Also, we’re your customers.
20:32.47
Robert Scheer
And if we can’t afford to buy your stuff, that’s what Elon Musk is saying or Bezos. then you’re not in business, you know?
20:38.81
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
20:38.99
Robert Scheer
And and so what I want to suggest ah for you, and to you and get you to talk about it, I think the importance of the word socialism is is that has shock value.
20:52.15
Robert Scheer
But then you ask yourself, wait a minute, So what what what what do they do in Germany? they They have very extensive support of working people in terms of vacation, terms of the work week. And they do it throughout successful capitalist countries. And they’re not afraid of that word.
21:11.67
Robert Scheer
So maybe what he has shown is we’ve been made to feel afraid of that word precisely because then it allows super wealthy, powerful people to destroy democracy with impunity.
21:24.63
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
21:24.70
Robert Scheer
and And I think this is I want to bring it closer to where I live in California, but the presidential election, because here you have somebody like Gavin Newsom, you know, and and will he be the candidate?
21:37.30
Robert Scheer
Who will be the candidate? and And will they go the route of a Bernie Sanders and a Mamdani, or will they try to play the old, and I see Newsome as somebody caught between Andrew Cuomo and Mamdani, you know, and.
21:51.77
Ted Hamm
Well, he’s also actively opposing the billionaire tax initiative and, you know, which Bernie and Ro Khanna and company are are strongly supporting.
21:56.41
Robert Scheer
Yeah, yeah.
22:02.32
Ted Hamm
So, you know, a that that’s something that Mamdani clearly succeeded with his tax the rich, but the slogan that was used at his rallies and so on.
22:13.70
Ted Hamm
So, you know, i do I agree that he made it was a major breakthrough that socialism is now part of democratic socialism as part of the conversation here in new york and and increasingly other places across the united states and you know that that uh shattered the whole cold cold war dialogue that lingered into the 21st century here and and seemed like it wasn’t gonna uh bud or wasn’t good there was no way it was gonna thaw but they finally broke it open so that that’s a a big deal but again again it also
22:50.14
Ted Hamm
circles back to what I was saying earlier, which is that, you know, how much can he actually initiate in terms of redistribution of wealth as the mayor? You know, he can use his bully pulpit, which he does quite effectively. And he’s done that starting with the campaign. now while he’s in office, you know, there’s still put out social media statements about every issue that he’s pushing, but however mundane they might be. um And, you know, so that’s,
23:18.50
Ted Hamm
he’s He is, in that sense, controlling the the narrative of his mayoralty, whereas he’s still facing the same many of the same um high-powered, but highly ah extremely powerful opponents that were trying to take bring him down in 2025. They’re still around.
23:36.79
Ted Hamm
But in any case, yeah, so he’s pushing, he’s made socialism something that people are… ah increasingly aware of, ready to talk about distribuing redistributing wealth in whatever way possible. and so But ultimately, thus far, he hasn’t done anything that really differentiates him from, say, Bill de Blasio, the last progressive… That’s how Bill de Blasio referred to himself, was progressive. So i don’t I don’t think there’s anything distinct yet that he’s achieved that would qualify as democratic socialist.
24:10.23
Ted Hamm
And I think he’s… showing that you can be someone who is a democratic socialist and be competent, certainly in handling the administration of city agencies and particularly regarding the snowstorms and sanitation and things that we confronted here in New York over the winter. And he got high marks for that from and from voters and so on. So he but in terms of actually just redistributing wealth, we haven’t. That’s something that’s beyond his control.
24:40.17
Robert Scheer
Well, redistributing wealth might be something beyond the control of the U.S. Congress and even the president. I mean, there’s was ah money talks, money talks.
24:46.01
Ted Hamm
Well, if they don’t want to, then they do it.
24:51.29
Robert Scheer
And if if if they start moving in that direction, we see what happens in these primaries and everything they can destroy. anyone But what um the point is, often quote Leonard Kuala, saying there’s a crack in everything. That’s how the light gets in. You know, the thing ain’t working now.
25:09.24
Robert Scheer
The system is not working. I hear it all the time. I mean, ah you know, I used to have to convince people we have problems and they’re not being addressed. Now I don’t have to. I mean, I hear it from everybody.
25:20.60
Robert Scheer
yeah i have you know um I live in a building where people, some of the nicest people voted for Trump. you know And I ask, well, how’s it working for you now? you know And they’re they’re furious.
25:31.24
Robert Scheer
you know ah you know and And so…
25:31.44
Ted Hamm
Hmm.
25:34.46
Robert Scheer
You know, people want results. and And what what um seems to me the next chapter for him is to put pressure on their congressional delegation, on their state delegation. That’s where the battles come. And then why isn’t the state government in New York? Let’s say you wanted to lower ah college tuition at public universities and so forth. You know, why aren’t they being supportive of that?
25:59.83
Robert Scheer
you know And so, yes, obviously, you know this has always been the issue of a mayor of New York. you know It’s true of the mayor of l L.A. you know They don’t even control the county, let alone you know the state politics, but they sure got a big megaphone there to raise the issues. And what I like about your book,
26:19.58
Robert Scheer
is It treats it like you know like you have that scene, three guys come into a bar. You’ve got the lingo there. i want to recommend the book. It’s really a very good, easy, human read.
26:32.50
Robert Scheer
and You get to you know what’s better to write about than the politics in New York. and You really know the neighborhoods. You know the whole scene. and Even though you have to back but you you were hurt by being raised in Chicago, they’ve got there a lot of neighborhoods.
26:46.73
Ted Hamm
while Chicago has its own rich political history.
26:48.50
Robert Scheer
Yeah, they come out of their neighborhoods too. you know But what I’m saying is I think you’re your’re i think he is a national, ah one of the most important national figures.
27:01.38
Robert Scheer
And if he fails only because the Democratic Party blocks him on the state level, or, you know, or the media that’s supposed to be enlightened like the New York Times blocks him.
27:14.94
Robert Scheer
That’s educational to people. Then you know who’s on your side and who’s not. And he has been, you know, boy, you’re much closer to, I didn’t think this guy had a chance, but it seems to me he’s been one of the great educators of the last 20 years or something.
27:32.03
Robert Scheer
I mean, so, you know,
27:33.43
Ted Hamm
Well, you said you mentioned his importance on the national stage, but also on the international stage, right, because of the Palestine-Israel question. And, you know, he was out front well before taking office, protesting outside of Chuck Schumer’s home six days after Trump. October 7th and getting arrested, right? And saying, we’re looking at an impending genocide. And, you know, that unfortunately played out correctly in that in his view, but ah that that is something that he’s, you know, he’s he hasn’t backed down in any meaningful way on asserting his position in support of the rights of Palestinians. Now he’s not attending the Israel parade coming up in June. And that’s a bit, that’s a,
28:21.18
Ted Hamm
creating controversy among the pro-Israel supporters in the city, very who are very you know passionate about the issue, obviously. And he is maintaining his stance. So, you know, that’s that and that’s a breakthrough, certainly, for in in New York City, but also sets an example for elsewhere across the nation and and internationally gets a lot of attention as a result.
28:45.82
Robert Scheer
Yeah, but you know, okay, I was gonna, didn’t wanna bring up the whole Jewish-Israel question right away, because it would dominate the whole interview, but let’s go there with the time.
28:56.11
Robert Scheer
If you got the time, we’ll extend this a little bit, because I think it that what’s happening in New York is really of decisive importance to the Jewish community internationally.
29:09.08
Robert Scheer
And because the, you know, prior to the creation of Israel, ah you know Jewish New Yorkers were you know very much on the left and remained on the left, even when they became economically more successful.
29:25.38
Robert Scheer
But you know i i remember once writing a long series about garment workers and you know the Mexican and Latino community in LA and the Jewish community and so forth.
29:35.54
Robert Scheer
And Jewish garment workers were normal here and in l LA, let alone New York. and so forth. And then Israel came along.
29:47.10
Robert Scheer
And one of the problems at first, Israel was also a socialist country. Everybody forgets the Labour Party was did not run away from that tradition.
29:58.65
Robert Scheer
And then somehow got identified with ah basically right-wing politics, you know, after the killing of Rabin. But, you know, And and I think, when ah correct me here, because you really know, and I don’t. I’m an outsider here now. It’s been a long time since I lived in New York.
30:20.02
Robert Scheer
But it seems to me a lot of particularly younger Jewish people in New York supported Mamdani and stayed. Have they abandoned him now or?
30:30.46
Ted Hamm
No, I don’t think so at all. I mean, I think it’s correct that they did, younger Jewish population did support him, but also activists, liberal Jews were very supportive as well. Jewish of organization called Jewish Voice for Peace, where they were one of the groups that endorsed him on day one way back in October of 2024. So, you know, he has very close ties to to left-wing Jewish activists and so on. And, you know, that, but that is, they’re also, you that’s about maybe 35 to 40%, maybe, i think, in opinion polls that were supportive of him in the general election of the entire Jewish population, right? So then that means there’s a significant number that are still, you
31:19.29
Ted Hamm
remain pro-Israel and very critical of Mamdani’s position in support of Palestinians. And Cuomo obviously was trying to tap into that. I show that in the book in various ways and how you know he was reaffirming his support. when There was one moment where he claimed to be criticizing Netanyahu, but it was really…
31:39.42
Ted Hamm
week and that he wouldn’t criticize the IDF sections and you know the humanitarian crisis and all the things that were happening. And then Cuomo then shifted gears again and just reverted back to Israel right or wrong. I’m on their side. This is a you know political alliance I’ve had since my father and yada yada. So Mabdani, you know, he taps into ah the rising tide of sentiment among Democrats, certainly in New York City and elsewhere across the nation. But there is still opposition to his position that he has to reckon with.
32:15.05
Robert Scheer
Well, does he, though? And again, i want to talk about, because you’re the, actually, you’re the most important expert I know on the whole phenomenon. I mean, you were there early, you followed it closely.
32:27.64
Robert Scheer
it seems to me what we’re really talking about is a changing of the tides. and and And that this guy happened to come along at a time when The earlier position of, oh, yeah, we give a blank check to Israel no matter what it does and so on became untenable, just untenable to anybody who’s citizen.
32:48.54
Ted Hamm
Right.
32:49.94
Robert Scheer
I mean, you have Jeffrey Sachs there at Columbia University, you know, very experienced foreign policy expert and so forth, writing very strong books. David Gardner- now about what’s going on, I mean there’s no well Bernie Sanders, a perfect example, the most important elected Jewish official in the whole country, you know, is very clear and getting clear all the time about it, and and so I think.
33:14.68
Robert Scheer
the reason that Mandani is so significant is that things are breaking his way, not because he’s a brilliant opportunist, but because the message happens to be relevant and accurate for where we are now. If you, you know, uh, I suspect if you had a a more enlightened Israeli government in power, uh, you know, say the Abba Ibn, uh,
33:37.30
Robert Scheer
you know, kind and that could actually frame things in a more appealing way and so forth, maybe he would be tempted to go to the parade. But, you know, I suspect there are a lot of ah Jewish people who now would have gone to such a parade who would feel, know, no, I don’t want to give a blank check to Netanyahu, you know, that if if that’s what it appears to be.
34:00.98
Ted Hamm
Yeah. Well, he’s really right. He’s been riding that wave of sentiment and the shift in ah public opinion that across populations too, right? that There were other groups as illustrated by Cuomo that, you know, he grew up Catholic and and, but his father, like I mentioned, had made this political alliance with Christians.
34:27.99
Ted Hamm
leaders in the city and you know they just assumed that that that would um benefit them politically and moving forward. And other politicians, black Democrats, mainstream Democrats and so on they often are unwilling to criticize.
34:45.20
Ted Hamm
So that and Mondani frequently um characterized that position as progressive, except Palestine among ah various leaders.
34:53.13
Robert Scheer
Yeah, but doesn’ me work more it doesn’t work anymore. it does you know it I mean, that’s what I’m trying to, the reason I’m so excited about having this discussion, I don’t think this is a suicidal position that goes nowhere.
34:55.64
Ted Hamm
Yeah, that doesn’t. Yeah.
35:10.82
Robert Scheer
I think that, you know, look, hate you see the old thing, some of my best friends are Jewish, but I, you know i mean sometimes it feels like a majority of my friends and and I certainly put myself in that camp you know but It’s changed.
35:30.84
Robert Scheer
It’s changed so dramatically. I know it’s changed in Los Angeles.
35:32.63
Ted Hamm
yeah
35:34.90
Robert Scheer
I’m sure it’s changed in New York as well. Netanyahu is an embarrassment, so I think, that to most Jewish people. you know i mean it’s it’s it’s you know what is What are we talking about here?
35:48.76
Robert Scheer
you know and and So all I’m saying is on this issue, on the case question of wealth, redistribution, any of the issues we think about, and that gets to that word socialism, and really what you’re talking about is you could have called Roosevelt at that point a socialist because he was you know he said the government is responsible for providing a decent standard of living and quality of life and education.
36:14.94
Robert Scheer
Freedom of fear from hunger and everything else. So, you know, I mean, that’s what is that. And, you know, when we talk about democratic socialism, but yes, it means using the electoral system. It means being nonviolent. It means trying to get mass support for your position, all of which he’s been very good at.
36:34.62
Ted Hamm
Yeah, well.
36:35.21
Robert Scheer
And so I want to shift the discussion just a little bit to whether, you know, this AOC, c Bernie, Matt Dhani group, which always seemed like permanent outsiders to the Democratic Party, is now ah quite possibly the majority position.
36:55.19
Ted Hamm
Interesting to say, i mean, it would depend on where, you know, know what locality you’re talking about and
37:02.38
Robert Scheer
Anywhere where affordability matters, damn it.
37:05.14
Ted Hamm
which is well, that would be everywhere, right?
37:06.07
Robert Scheer
You’re talking about the party that’s been captured by billionaires and then you’ve got the others yearning to breathe free.
37:07.96
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
37:12.78
Robert Scheer
What about us? I can’t pay the rent. I can’t even go to the subway to get a sandwich. ah you know I’m hearing this from people who, you know, there’s they have good jobs or they used to be good jobs, you know, or, you know, they’ve been hardworking school teachers and everything and they can’t go out for dinner.
37:17.39
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
37:30.59
Robert Scheer
You know, and and and so, you know, i’ I’m saying the country is in crisis.
37:32.79
Ted Hamm
Well, yeah.
37:35.11
Robert Scheer
And I wonder wonder whether this person who maybe, not only maybe, be unquestionably in an earlier period would have been marginalized and defeated, is now what the country feels it needs.
37:49.78
Ted Hamm
I think the positions he’s advocated, i mean, he is still going to be a lightning rod because of his identity for various groups and so on You know, it way maybe they but may not rally, voters may not instantly rally to embrace him, but they embrace, I think, increasingly are embracing the positions that Bernie, AOC, Mamdani, that they’re championing, right? So he, yeah I think he’s certainly inspiring, right? younger voters, certainly inspiring South Asian, Muslim voters, and and you know activist voters of all kinds and so on.
38:25.72
Ted Hamm
And you know I think there’s a ah ah groundswell, it’s just a bit a problem is still the party democratic party leadership is so resistant. And, you know, they they’re loyal to their donor class. The donor class is also heavily invested in Israel and pro-Israel forces but and influencing the Democratic Party and so on. So, you know, it’s it’s a challenge and you have to to try to topple the regime with from within the Democratic Party. not Not an easy task. But one thing I do want to mention, so just we don’t forget, but
39:01.75
Ted Hamm
The one thing I discuss in the book in a fair amount of detail is his question very questionable decision to retain the and NYPD commissioner, Jessica Tisch. And she is a a billionaire herself or for an heiress to the billionaire Tisch family.
39:16.15
Ted Hamm
That’s T-I-S-C-H. And, you know, he decided that the city, the the city elite convinced him to make that decision to retain her.
39:18.30
Robert Scheer
Yeah.
39:24.95
Ted Hamm
He was influenced there by Kathy Hochul, Tish James, and a very slippery Democratic Party operative named Patrick Gaspard. But um you know I think that was ah a bad move. It’s proving to be a bad move in terms of angering the people who supported him based one of the issues he and his other fellow New York City Democratic Socialists of America and they’ve been pushing criminal justice reform strongly over the last several years. And now he he chose a a police commissioner who had no interest in reform, kind which he’d already established. And then since taking office, she’s continuing to oppose reform. So that was up very that was a ah de Blasio type move that’s angering people. And it was easy to see that coming. And I do write about that in the book. So I don’t i just want to make sure that you know people don’t think I’m just a cheerleader from Amdani. I’m sympathetic, generally speaking, but I am critical when i mean he when he makes decisions that I don’t i don’t agree with.
40:25.49
Robert Scheer
Well, let’s push that further because that is the great, obviously, most of us expect him to sell out. Most of us, sorry, you I’m not including you in this, but, you know, come on, I know, you know, I’ve written about but many of these politicians, I know,
40:45.69
Robert Scheer
you know I get to know him, I knew the Clintons and I you know i know a lot of these people and so forth. And the name of the game basically is selling out you know and then how you rise higher in the ranks.
40:58.05
Robert Scheer
And so I’m not naive about this, nor do I think the average voter is naive. They just expect to be betrayed. you know And the question is, the only thing that works against that is if they see it succeeds.
41:15.38
Robert Scheer
That’s say after all, you know, Roosevelt didn’t sought out as a big lefty or something, you know, in his first election, but he saw it that the country was broken and and you really could not be a good capitalist without being for social justice and economic fairness and so forth. That’s where we got the New Deal.
41:36.32
Robert Scheer
It wasn’t they because they read Karl Marx or something and, you know, oh yeah, well, I’ll go for that, you know. And what i’m ah I’m trying to get you to think about a little bit here about the times that we’re living in.
41:48.91
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
41:49.23
Robert Scheer
And the fact is, Democratic Party opportunism is a loser. It’s a big loser. And you’ll see it right now, in fact, just unrelated really to our discussion. But right now, it looks like Trump may be actually getting a deal with Iran. You know, you don’t have to do regime change. yeah He’s already being attacked by some Democrats.
42:10.78
Robert Scheer
Right. the Booker cor booker ah criticized him. but You know, others like, are these, no, they’re now, they’re going to be what? They want more war, you know, or they think, ah you know,
42:23.87
Ted Hamm
Well, Booker clearly doesn’t have his finger on the pulse if we saw what happened in Philadelphia last week with the primary, right? he
42:29.76
Robert Scheer
Yeah, but but but but um but what I’m saying is, you know, it’s not a question of whether radical rhetoric works or whether words work or something.
42:30.26
Ted Hamm
His candidate went down.
42:40.15
Robert Scheer
It’s it’s a question of whether the times require a different approach, okay?
42:46.42
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
42:46.55
Robert Scheer
and know And Richard Nixon, for God’s sake, everybody forgets, on a lot of domestic stuff, Richard Nixon was pretty enlightened compared to the current crowd.
42:46.63
Ted Hamm
Yeah.
42:55.13
Robert Scheer
He bought Moynihan’s idea of a guaranteed annual income. you know he um it was you know He actually and did the opening to China when he saw that this was not working and you weren’t gonna be able to confront them.
43:08.82
Robert Scheer
And you had to live with that reality that they can go another way. It’s a multipolar world. And I’m not going to say that Trump has that capacity to change, but he sure shows a certain flexibility.
43:21.48
Robert Scheer
And if the Democrats don’t have that and they can’t even embrace a Mandani or Bernie Sanders, for God’s sake, they’re going to be a loser party, you know.
43:33.05
Ted Hamm
Yeah. no I think, so I think Momdani clearly is lazing a trail and that, as I’ve been saying, you’ve been saying that Bernie is, uh, out there doing, and with AOC, you know, all the rest that, you know, they’re doing, ah they’re, they’re showing them the, the, the path, but they just, the leadership just doesn’t want, doesn’t want to go down that path.
43:53.81
Ted Hamm
But in any case, okay.
43:55.44
Robert Scheer
So let’s talk about the police and conclude with that, because then what you brought up is very disturbing. and and And it’s disturbing because there’s, you know, who goes to jail, who gets punished.
44:09.34
Robert Scheer
It’s obviously based on a class and race, you know, and unfortunately, you know, the two. come together ah very often in terms of who ends up getting a ah bad deal in the criminal justice system.
44:24.15
Robert Scheer
And and if you know he fails on that. you know it’s It’s ironic because if you want to talk about socialism, the most socialized, successfully socialized institution is the police department.
44:37.77
Ted Hamm
Hmm. Yep.
44:38.42
Robert Scheer
you know They’re also the most unionized. They also worry about all their members’ security, the fire department. you know It’s a big joke here. And then the next group would be maybe school teachers in some districts have some leverage and what have you. So we have plenty of examples.
44:56.82
Robert Scheer
where government can be on the side of workers’ interests if they happen to be cops or firemen or something. you know And and if if he doesn’t rise to that challenge of the inequality of the carceral state, then
45:11.77
Ted Hamm
Yes. I mean, one one that ah issue that really um was very surprised he didn’t take a forceful stand when it came out that the and NYPD has been arresting homeless people for taking up two seats on the subway and things like that. Right. And dragging them into court. And, you know, that obviously people who are facing other challenges, mental health challenges and so on, don’t want to go into the shelter system. mean yeah But the the the way to approach that is not that by putting them through the ah the criminal justice apparatus, right? So, and and that’s something he’s been, he was campaigning strongly for push pushing forward a Department of Community Safety, taking an alternative approaches to um a public health, mental health oriented approach. And then that’s sort of just rolling out very, very, very slowly because, and the NYPD, is not on board with it and so on. they Or they’re just paying lip service and not really following through. So, you know, if you if he had actually appointed a more ah progressive police commissioner, things could be different and he chose not to. and you know, there there’s cities around the United States that, including a Newark, across the water, across the Hudson, that, you know, they’ve they’ve been very progressive in um their approach and succeeding in reducing violent crime as well, right? And so that’s, there was plenty of examples of personnel that he, other choices he could have made, and he opted to stick with the one that the city elite, they they they they wanted. So that was a That’s a problem. We’ll see how that plays out and then in going forward.
46:49.71
Robert Scheer
Any other warning signs, just so this isn’t too puffy a a podcast?
46:55.06
Ted Hamm
um Well, I guess just you know following trying to figure out ways to follow through on making the next um half.
47:06.29
Ted Hamm
No, and then there’s only we’re only half a half year in. So, you know, he has time to start pushing actual are like property tax reform and things like that, that really can be that he has with the power to to control.
47:20.82
Ted Hamm
And that can help rectify some of the inequalities that we’ve seen in the city. But
47:26.84
Robert Scheer
and But the main task is he has to attack the Democratic Party because they control a lot in that state.
47:34.49
Ted Hamm
well Well, but then again, he needs he’s been getting funding from Governor Hochul for the University of China.
47:34.65
Robert Scheer
And if they don’t,
47:41.21
Robert Scheer
you
47:41.29
Ted Hamm
he’s trying to walk line there.
47:42.13
Robert Scheer
No, no. I mean, I’m not saying he shouldn’t work with these people, but you know come on.
47:43.54
Ted Hamm
Yeah. Yeah.
47:46.21
Robert Scheer
the The missing thing we haven’t talked about, because people can read other books, the Democratic Party sucks. It’s just the reality. What are we talking about here? The people who really, you know I wrote a book about it, The Great America Stick Up, the people who unleashed the greed of Wall Street was Bill Clinton and his cronies, you know Robert Rubin and the Lawrence Summers. So, I mean, no, this this guy’s a breath of fresh air, but, you know, these people, if he really tries to cozy up to them, he’s he’s a goner. You know, he’s going to be part of the problem and not the solution, no question about it.
48:21.35
Ted Hamm
Well, I think he’s you know he’s still very, he’s only 34, so, you know, and i he’s he knows he knows the score.
48:21.59
Robert Scheer
you know
48:28.66
Ted Hamm
I mean, he’s well beyond his years in terms of his knowledge of the issues and and so on, so.
48:34.53
Robert Scheer
Yeah. All right.
48:35.89
Ted Hamm
In any case, well, i just let me say by way conclusion, Bob, I really appreciate your so your kind words about the book. I’m really happy that you enjoyed it. And both and thanks for talking to me both um when Runs Around Run came out. Now um we’ll meet when Mom Nanny is out.
48:51.26
Robert Scheer
Yeah, I’m going to come to you again because you, you know, I’m kidding. First the book, yes, the book, Meet Mayer Memnani, and it’s great. It’s the one thing you really have to read if you want to know. so the You frame it brilliantly in the book, and it’s a joy to read, and it’s got real New York characters in there and everything, so it’s a bit like Jimmy Breslin or something. You know, it’s New York style of writing, and, you know, and and Pete Hamill or some of the other. guys, Murray Kempton, you know, and, you know, and and you put us there in in the neighborhoods, you know, a lot. And,
49:30.19
Robert Scheer
And, you know, if anybody, I mean, New York’s a great showcase. What this guy does is internationally important. that The whole world knows about New York. They care about New York. Is it safe? Can I go there? Is it great? the date Did they solve this problem? Did they solve that problem? So it’s an incredible laboratory.
49:49.88
Robert Scheer
And your book really introduces us to how this happened. And, you know, ah when I first started reading you on him, you know, i thought you were being naive and yet I didn’t think this guy was going to go anywhere and you proved me wrong and that’s why I’m happy to have the opportunity to talk you.
50:08.13
Robert Scheer
So I’ll keep in touch and again, meet Mary Mondani or, O-R, but or as the publisher, but I hate to keep part promoting ah Kindle, but for God damn it, for $9 change, can get a book there and you can share it with your family and and know
50:09.21
Ted Hamm
Okay, thank you.