Joshua Scheer
Opposition to war and government surveillance has brought Judge Andrew Napolitano to a political conclusion few would have expected from the longtime Fox News analyst: urging Michigan voters to support Democrat Abdul El-Sayed. Speaking with Katie Halper, the libertarian host of Judging Freedom calls Mike Rogers a “war-loving, spy-loving, constitution-hating two-bit thug” and explains why his disagreements with the left over taxes and private property take a back seat to defending civil liberties and preventing war.
Napolitano traces his evolution from a conservative Republican who supported the Vietnam War to a fierce critic of American militarism. Repulsed by Trump’s foreign policy and authoritarianism, he urges voters to “hold their noses” and vote Democratic to put a brake on presidential power. The conversation explores the possibility of political alliances built around a shared refusal to surrender constitutional rights or accept endless war.
Edited for readability, with timestamps, fillers and repeated starts removed. Based on the supplied text; not checked against the recording. The excerpt ends mid-sentence.
Katie Halper: Thank you so much, Judge, for speaking to me. It’s a real honor.
Judge Andrew Napolitano: It’s a pleasure to be with you, Katie.
Halper: I was really fascinated. I heard you speak at an event, the Icarus Fest, and you mentioned how you’ve changed politically over the years. You said something about how you had been a supporter of the Vietnam War, and I want to know about that political evolution.
Napolitano: In my youth, I was more of a traditional Barry Goldwater-style conservative Republican who believed that communism was a threat to world domination.
But as I got older, I realized the Vietnam War was a farce. It was a disaster. It was concocted by LBJ because he believed that, like his hero FDR, he could leave a legacy of triumph in war. It caused me to reevaluate a lot of attitudes that I had had about the military and about war. Today, I would describe myself as fiercely anti-war.
Halper: Right, of course. Did you have an “aha” moment, or was it gradual? Do you remember how your mind was changed?
Napolitano: No, I wouldn’t say there was an “aha” moment. But you get a little more mature, and you look at events and realize the cost that these events have to human life and to constitutional government, and you reevaluate your position.
Halper: Have you lost friends and acquaintances, people you used to work with? Has there been a cost to you for changing your mind? I’m just curious. I’m fascinated by how, when people have ideological or political changes, that affects their personal and professional lives.
Napolitano: The short answer is no. My friendships were not based on ideological compatibility, so I didn’t lose any friends.
When I was first on the bench and began to perceive the Bill of Rights as meaning what it says, I had some interesting dinner-table conversations with my parents, who were classic law-and-order, blue-collar, Catholic conservative Republicans. They didn’t understand why, if somebody was guilty, I was suppressing the evidence against them—until I explained to them what the police did in order to get the evidence.
That was a bit of an eye-opener there. But they were my parents, so they still loved me, and I didn’t lose them or any friends over any of this.
Halper: Right. And what about Fox News and your colleagues there? I know that you were very outspoken in your criticism of Trump. What kind of friction did that cause?
Napolitano: No friction. Look, I’ll never say anything bad about Fox. I was there for 24 years. I was the center of every legal story from the impeachment of Bill Clinton to the first impeachment of Donald Trump. They were 24 very professionally fulfilling and fruitful years.
Halper: Which guest that you have on frequently are you most amused to have on? Which guest do you think, 10 years ago, you would not have believed that you would have had on?
Napolitano: Probably Pepe Escobar, because he’s such a bohemian character. When you say “amused,” he’s hilarious, but he’s also a fearless, hardcore lefty, which, of course, 10 years ago I was not. Well, maybe 20 years ago I was not. And very amusing.
But I’m deeply grateful to have all of my superstars on, including friends of yours and mine, because they bring great knowledge, personal courage and large audiences.
Halper: Right. So you said you wouldn’t have considered yourself a hard lefty. You identify as a libertarian. Is it that you’re now more open to hard lefties?
Napolitano: I have found that hard lefties agree with libertarians on civil liberties and on war. So if the spectrum is a circle, I’m probably back-to-back with AOC.
I surely don’t agree with them on economic matters, because they want to confiscate property. To me, private property is an absolute right. I believe that taxation is theft. They believe taxation is a positive good.
But, for example, if I were in Michigan, no question in my mind, I would vote for the Democrat, the doctor. I forget his name—Abdullah.
Halper: Abdul.
Napolitano: And I would encourage everybody in Michigan to do the same. Mike Rogers is a war-loving, spy-loving, Constitution-hating two-bit thug who has no right to be in the government. Even though I would probably disagree with El-Sayed’s vote on taxation and property, I would surely agree with him on war and civil liberties.
Halper: That’s interesting. Since that’s such a life-and-death issue, I guess that would explain why you would support him despite those other—
Napolitano: It does. It does, Katie. I’m repulsed by what Trump has done in the Middle East, in Israel, in Iran, and in Europe, in Ukraine.
I would encourage everybody to vote, hold their noses and vote for the Democrats, because they’re going to try and push through a lot of legislation we will find repellent, but they’re going to put a brake on the authoritarian in the Oval Office.
Halper: Oh, wow. Interesting. Aaron Maté and I have joked that when we’ve had on libertarians, we say, “How about we agree, if we ever join forces and win, you guys can take care of the foreign policy, and we’ll take care of the domestic policy?”
Napolitano: There you go.
Halper: Have you ever feared any retaliation, given your criticism of the government? Have you ever feared any retaliation from the government?
Napolitano: I wouldn’t say I feared it. I’ve thought about it, but I haven’t, as far as I know, had any retaliation visited on me. I don’t think my megaphone reaches enough people to get the government’s attention.
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