Joshua Scheer
In this segment of The Katie Halper Show, Katie speaks with congressional candidate Karen Ortiz about Chelsea public housing residents fighting to save their homes—and challenges Zohran Mamdani over his support for the demolition plan.
Ortiz describes a proposal to tear down 18 buildings at the Fulton and Elliott-Chelsea developments, warning that residents face displacement while developers gain access to valuable Manhattan land. She raises concerns about how residents were consulted, the environmental consequences of demolition and the toll that relocation threatens to take on elderly tenants. Drawing on the documentary A Home Worth Fighting For, the conversation puts residents’ experiences at the center of a debate too often dominated by developers and officials.
Both Halper and Ortiz say they were excited about Mamdani’s political promise. That makes their demand for accountability especially pointed: listen to the tenants, visit their homes and answer their objections. Progressive credentials should invite scrutiny of what a politician does with power.
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This transcript has been edited for clarity and readability, with timestamps, fillers and repeated words removed.
Katie Halper: Before we get into what made you run for Congress in New York’s 12th District, I want to ask you about this really important housing struggle that you’re involved in: stopping the demolition of Fulton–Elliott–Chelsea Houses. How did you get involved in this, and why is it important?
Karen: About seven years ago, I hit a housing lottery and moved in. I got to know my neighbors. I’m right near public housing owned by the New York City Housing Authority, in an area of Manhattan called Chelsea. This particular housing complex is called Fulton–Elliott–Chelsea Houses.
I got to know my neighbors, and then I learned about what was happening to them: the threat of their homes being demolished and replaced, and essentially being turned over to private real estate.
I began to learn more and more about this struggle, and I love my neighbors, so I decided to join them in their effort to stop this demolition.
Katie Halper: I actually met you, Karen, at a screening of a great documentary called A Home Worth Fighting For, by a friend of mine, Natasha Florentino, who I have to have on the show. It really lays out all the disgusting corruption that we’re seeing in an attempt to evict people.
Can you tell people more about this—the dirty tricks they’re trying to use against people?
Karen: Essentially, private equity wants to come in and tear down 18 buildings—that’s what makes up the campus—and move the residents out while these buildings are being built.
The film so beautifully lays out the problems that started from the very beginning, even with getting buy-in from the residents themselves. There was a survey sent out to residents explaining, or purporting to explain, the proposed plan. As it turns out, and as the film so wonderfully illustrates, there was a lot of deception in that initial survey.
First of all, it was done using only QR codes. There are a lot of folks who aren’t super tech-savvy, a significant number of older, elderly folks who don’t really use tech. So they essentially didn’t participate fully in this survey.
Most egregiously, the survey referred to the demolition as “decanting.” They never once used the word “demolition.” That fooled a lot of residents, who later, when they found out what the plan really was, were like, “We were never told that our homes were going to be demolished. We thought they were going to be refurbished and fixed up.”
I’ve never used the word “decant” except with reference to wine, and even then, I really don’t use that word. It was those kinds of moves that showed me from the beginning that this wasn’t a transparent effort to really improve the lives of my neighbors.
Katie Halper: Let’s actually show a trailer of this great film.
[Documentary trailer begins.]
Trailer speaker: When I got homeless, we slept in a car for a while, and we knew that wasn’t working out healthy. My kids suffered a lot.
Trailer speaker: I was in the shelter system for about a year and a half. I did go to a lot of protests over us being in the shelter so long.
Trailer speaker: My daughter was born in 2002. We came from a shelter, and they told us they had an apartment for us. When we went to see the apartment, I just was so blessed. It was a perfect gift—the perfect gift that I could have gotten, living in public housing.
Trailer speaker: I came here with my American flag and my Puerto Rican flag, and I said, “This is going to be home forever.” This is what it’s been since: home forever, for me, for my kids, for my grandchildren.
Trailer speaker: Twenty-one years, and we’re still here, still taking care of this apartment.
Protesters: Fired up! Can’t take it no more! Fired up! Can’t take it no more!
Trailer speaker: We are not just fighting for Fulton and Elliott–Chelsea Houses. We are fighting for every tenant in public housing.
Trailer speaker: The audacity of these developers won’t stop until they have it all.
Trailer speaker: But what they don’t say is that this construction won’t be complete until 2041.
Trailer speaker: A quarter of a century, almost, of constant toxic environmental waste.
Trailer speaker: We’ve seen that these agreements, when they’re executed, are a declaration of war on NYCHA residents.
Trailer speaker: The profiteering on public land has to stop.
[Documentary trailer ends.]
Katie Halper: That’s a great film and a great sample of what the film shows.
A lot of people, myself included, were fairly excited. We were skeptical, and I also didn’t love the fact that he didn’t come on my show this round, but we were very excited about Zohran Mamdani and some of his housing proposals.
What has Zohran Mamdani done in response to these threats of demolition?
Karen: I’ll say that I was excited about Zohran Mamdani, too. I think that, as mayor and as a leader, he relies on his team to give him good information to move forward, whether it’s free and fast buses, child care or housing.
Unfortunately, I find the NYCHA board to be completely out of touch. He’s getting his data from a NYCHA board. The CEO of NYCHA makes upwards of $400,000. That’s more than the head of the Housing and Urban Development agency in D.C. makes. It’s insane.
The salaries are up there for the board. You’re talking about a board giving information to our mayor who are really out of touch with the everyday experiences of residents who live in NYCHA houses. That’s one piece.
The second piece is that the residents and I have extended an invitation to Mayor Mamdani to come meet with residents. Meet on their turf—not in City Hall, not in Gracie Mansion. Come check out the buildings yourself. Meet with the residents yourself.
For me, this issue is so personal because I live right in this area, right next to the campus. That is how I’ve really learned how important this fight is, not just for this community. This is the blueprint that could happen to the rest of the city and other NYCHA houses.
His lack of response to that outreach is pretty bad. So I’ll renew the invitation. It’s an open invitation.
I’ve been campaigning for Congress, and part of that effort was petitioning door to door and getting signatures to get on the ballot. I have been in every single one of these NYCHA buildings, walked through them and seen that they’re sturdy.
Yes, some of the stairwells need to be fixed up. Some of the homes need work that could be done through what’s called comprehensive modernization. I’m not talking about this without having been in these homes myself.
That is my big beef with the mayor. This is such a big fight. It affects a lot of people. He really should make the effort to come and meet with the residents himself.
Katie Halper: My gripe with him about not coming on—he came on before, but not since he was running for mayor—is a petty gripe. I want to distinguish between that petty gripe and your very substantive, legitimate, important call for him to show up.
Why is he taking the position he’s taking? Basically, he’s supporting the demolition.
Karen: Yes.
Katie Halper: Why is that?
Karen: I think he’s listening to what the real estate lobby, and the politicians backed by the real estate lobby, are telling him—the information he’s being fed. That’s from the prior administration, too.
He’s basically bringing the same approach as former Mayor Adams was bringing. Maybe he’s just getting bad information. That’s why I think meeting with the residents himself would be a really fruitful endeavor for him.
Katie Halper: Just to clarify, NYCHA and the real estate lobby are claiming that it would be too expensive to do these repairs, and it would be cheaper to demolish everything and build from the start.
Can you talk about the truth behind that, and also the environmental damage it would cause?
Karen: Yes. NYCHA more recently acknowledged that demolishing the buildings and building new structures would actually cost more.
Katie Halper: So they were lying before—either lying, or the data has been updated. To be charitable, let’s say they were wrong.
Karen: They were wrong. Yes.
There have been recent soil studies that have shown there are toxic chemicals in the soil. It’s not surprising, because Chelsea in the past wasn’t the tony part of town that people think it is now. It was manufacturing. It was meatpacking. There were things in the ground.
There’s abatement that can be done when excavation and these kinds of projects take place, but no amount of abatement is going to keep everything from coming out into the air, which would affect not only the campus area but the city as a whole.
This campus is huge. This whole area would be a construction zone for decades and would affect more than just the residents of the NYCHA buildings.
Katie Halper: Also, there are these beautiful trees. One of the really moving parts in the film is this woman who says she feels like she’s in a magical forest. Obviously, that would mean removing the trees.
Karen: Yes, that’s [Selena]. I have to say, all the people featured prominently in the film, I’ve gotten to know. I think I said this at the screening you were at: They are like rock stars to me. They are on the front lines, and they are just amazing people.
[Selena] talked so eloquently about the tree canopy, which I appreciate, too. There are about 300 trees across the campus, and those would all be taken down.
They want to tear down 18 NYCHA buildings and put up six super-tall towers to house those residents, but they also want to build luxury housing.
Katie Halper: Let’s say the demolition were to go forward. What would happen to the people living there?
Karen: What’s happening now is that they’re trying to move out residents of two buildings. One is called Chelsea Addition. The other is, I think, Building 11. Those buildings house the elderly. Chelsea Addition is all elderly residents.
It’s really gross what they’re doing. They’re moving them into other units on the campus that are empty. But some of these folks are refusing to move, and there’s litigation around that. They are my heroes, too.
Some of them are quite elderly and frail. Displacement really can lead to death and depression. At the last NYCHA board meeting, a group of residents were there, and I was there along with some other allies. There was testimony that one of the residents in Chelsea Addition tried to take his own life—a very elderly person—because this threat of being displaced was so traumatizing.
We’re trying to stop that. There are different levels of litigation happening. God bless the housing lawyers dealing with that.
We’re trying to slow it down and at least build a bigger coalition and get the mayor here, because it may just take public opinion to stop this.
Katie Halper: And you’re being told that you’re being done a favor by the city.
Karen: Also, there’s been this narrative: “The residents want this. The residents want this.” That’s wrong. They’re being fed a narrative.
Can you imagine? I’ve moved many times. It’s stressful enough when you move willingly, right?
They’re picking—going after—the low-hanging fruit, or what they thought was the low-hanging fruit: the seniors. And the seniors are feisty, fighting. Like I said, they’re my heroes.